December 3, 2020

Saturday Ramblings 11.12.11

Well, as they say, the frost is on the pumpkin. Ok, I don’t know who “they” are, or where they keep their pumpkins. Any pumpkins not smashed in the middle of my street by costumed tricksters are rotten anyway. Why would frost settle on a rotten gourd? Now that we have that out of the way, let’s move on to more exciting things, such as why the world did not end on 11.11.11. Any clues? No? Me either. What say we take a stroll down the ramblin’ road.

If you are planning to “occupy,” you might want to make it in Chicago. Seems some churches there are opening their doors to protestors, providing them a safe place to sleep and an “alternative to police custody.” I’m still not sure how I feel about the whole occupy thingy. What are your thoughts?

Things are bad all over (according to the six o’clock news), and especially in cities like Detroit. So what better to share and show the Gospel of God’s amazing grace than to hold a prayer meeting to address problems in America, including the rising Islamic movement. Lou Engle is at Ford Field, home of the Detroit Lions, this weekend with TheCall praying against the demonic spirit he says has taken over Detroit. Well, ok, the Tigers did lose in the ALCS to the Texas Rangers, but I’m not sure if that is the work of Satan or a shaky bullpen.

Faith Evangelical Presbyterian Church in Fairfax, Virginia may be feeling the need to cast out demon golf balls on Sunday mornings. The church is next to a driving range where golfers sometimes hit the balls sideways rather than straight, and those balls end up on church property. Some have even hit the parishioners. The driving range has put up nets and screens to try to prevent any damage. The church, meanwhile, is using a different tactic. They are suing the driving range. Maybe it would be safer to play golf on Sundays than go to church.

Ok, I don’t know if this has any real spiritual significance. But since when has that stopped me from posting something just plain, er, interesting, here in the rambling portion of your Saturday?

Chaplain Mike has been looking at how the Lutheran tradition answers many of his disappointments with evangelicalism. Ok, Chap, explain this.


Happy birthday wishes go out this last week to Vivian Leigh; Ike Turner; Art Garfunkel; Bill Walton; John Philip Sousa; Glenn Frey; Billy Graham; Joni Mitchell; Bram Stoker; Bonnie Raitt; Spiro Agnew; Susan Tedeschi; and Claude Rains.

Who says women can’t rock and roll? Turn this up and enjoy.

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  1. “Ok, Chap, explain this.”

    Is this the Swedish version of the LCMS “Ablaze”?

    • Hmm, the Gospel isn’t filling the pews, let’s try club music and lasers! That’s the ticket.

    • I’d caution the Swedes not to get too carried away by this as the answer to filling the pews; it’s been done before.

      Come with me back to the heady days of the mid-80s, and the Church of England finds itself with a particular group on its hands that is wildly successful: the Nine O’Clock Service. It’s packing the young people into the pews, even if it’s run more as an independent ministry under the bishop’s oversight than as part of the established church. Still, it’s getting converts, getting publicity, and getting results, so it’s all good, right?

      Come with me forward to the mid-90s, and the wheels have come off. Allegations of sexual irregularity, allegations that it’s being run like a one-man band, allegations that it’s a cult… well, there you have it. Collapse of Amazing New Thing into Same Old Story. Testimony from someone who was there as it happened.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        Just skimming those links, here’s what struck me:

        1) Mike Bickle & the Kansas City Prophets and 24/7 Tongues Tongues Tongues, eventually followed by Wretched Urgency burnouts.
        2) Experimental liturgies… Did not mention whether these involved Clown Masses, female Liturgical Dancers, and/or Giant Puppet Heads.
        3) Justification by youth relevance & whatever is Anglican for “Souls Are Being SAVED”.
        4) Drifting away from local social justice to large-scale abstract Social Justice Ministry. I saw this happen in Newman Centers in the Eighties, and it didn’t end well.
        5) “Planetary Mass” — living in the California Granola Bowl, anything about “The Plaaanet” sets off alarms. You can’t get more Large-Scale and Abstract than The Plaaaanet as an abstract whole. Risk of drift into the same Eyes on the Large-Scale Omelet on the Distant Horizon syndrome as Citizen Robespierre, Comrade Lenin, and Comrade Pol Pot.
        6) And ending up as a “Reverend Brainwash and his harem of groupies”. Especially after the move put Reverend Brainwash out of direct episcopal supervision.

    • Those wacky Swedes…

  2. I completely support the Occupy Together movement. However, I think they appear to work better in big cities where they can truly occupy ground in business/banking districts and make a very visible statement. I live in a smaller city, and the movement here cooperates too much with city officials – thus purging it of any “occupy” idea and it looks more like a homeless camp than a serious political movement.

    • Got some news for you Jim…the movement in the city of San Diego looks like a homeless encampment as well, complete with the smell of urine and littered grounds.

      “Occupy” has no other goal than to provoke and, against all reason and hope, shame a vague assortment of financial and government institutions to conform more to a socialist/Marxist model which even Occupy is not very clear on. Not a very successful model for success, in MY opinion.

      What irks ME to no end is government’s cowering in the face of the implied threat of the loud cries of “oppressor” coming from the occupiers if law enforcement tries to enforce city code. If another group wants to counter demonstrate then, guess what? They have to apply for permits and pay fees before they are sanctioned! “Occupy”, on the other hand, is free to violate health codes and vagrancy laws because they threaten officials with a scene.

      Is this fair? Does this sound like an admirable form of protest? Why do other groups have to leave at dark and refrain from obstructing public access while “Occupiers” get to flaunt the law? This is nothing more than Saul Alinsky-ish agitation calculated to provoke a response. If they cleaned up and went home every night and then returned in the morning MAYBE I could tolerate their lack of positive action, but as of now they are just a pestilence.

      • Ditto……if there were any respect for hygiene and order, and a clear goal of this “protest”, I would be willing to listen to a message supporting the needs of children, education for the unemployed, or preventative prenatal care.

        However, “pay off my student loan for my useless degree…because I don’t want to” and “big business is bad so I am leaving my mommy’s basement apartment to come here and look important” and similar slogans do not cut it for me.

        I DO support another group of young people who are living in tents, eating cold food, and being harassed by other….our troops in the middle east. You know, the ones who are risking THEIR lives so that spoiled college kids can indulge their ennui. And, as you said, complain about being subjected to city codes….which are there for public health and safety reasons.

        • Wow, you sure seem to know a lot about each individual involved, including their motives and backgrounds. You also exude a distinct hatred of the poor, “smells” and all. I read you loud and clear. Both of you.

          • Marie, so many of them have shared their stories on the internet, that I feel I know a fair amount about those who have shared SO much of their plight. Imagine no jobs for a male womens’ studies major!

            And perhaps you should re-read my FIRST paragraph. The OWS folks are the ones whining about homeless people “polluting” their camps and eating their food. I deal just fine with the poor at the soup kitchen and the free health clinic, even those who smell. Spoiled college grads….their “smell” of entitlement and cluelessness DOES bother me.

            So you seem to know a lot me as an individual that was wrong, huh?

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            Imagine no jobs for a male womens’ studies major!

            Or Master’s Degree in Modern Free-Verse Poetry…

            Or Master’s Degree in Macrame…

  3. The voice, the guitar, the legs. Tedeschi is the bomb! Derek’s not bad neither. Here’s another good one:

  4. ‘Occupy’ this:

    Dr. Thomas Sowell explains it pretty well ( I believe ).

    I love that guy.

    • From what I just read, I don’t feel the love. He comes across as sneering and supercilious. He lumps all protesters together as violent, and fails to engage properly with the issues. So, the 1% don’t earn a million – in fact it’s half a million – but that’s hardly the point. The point is that the wealthy and powerful few have manipulated the financial system to their own benefit… and those who caused the financial meltdown have not paid the price. The price has been paid by the poor and middle classes. And the system is unchanged. Casino banking continues. Bonuses for casino banking continue to be paid. Banks are building capital, not by wise investment, but by withholding finance from the businesses that need it.

      Yes, there will always be a richest 1%. But it does not have to be so much richer than the rest. And it does not need to rig the system quite so much. Maybe the lower percentiles could benefit from better education, or more opportunity, or affordable healthcare while forced out of work by a manufactured crisis. It’s not just climate that is affected by human action, and that needs some planning to avert disaster.

      But Sowell prefers to concentrate on the inconvenience protests cause, and use the mix of views in the protest as a way of avoiding any of their issues. Sorry… I’m just not feeling it, brother!

      • I’m with you, Paul. Like others, Sowell is out of touch with what’s going on. The Occupy movement may not be making great strides yet (and winter’s coming on for those camped out) but Sowell and others seem to deny that there’s a problem. If there’s no bread, the naive little lady once said, why is that a problem? Isn’t there plenty of cake for these people? And so, she said, they needn’t bother to worry.

        • Sure Jim, urinating on the streets will force a system to change. At lest the Tea Part had a plan of action: get their guys elected to influence how things are done. But even THEY are discovering that the “system” is such a leviathan that change, IF it can be effected, will only come in small increments over a long period of time. “Occupy” doesn’t even HAVE a plan, much less coherent goals.

          Other protest groups at least had a specific target, “Occupy”‘s target is so large as to be almost impossible to affect because it is so diverse. Get some leaders people! Get a real PLAN instead of appealing to emotion!

          • Who is Jim?

            But you offer some good advice. I think they do need leadership, especially as the temperature drops. Those tents look pretty chilly.

        • I know this is nitpicking, but it’s likely that Marie Antoinette never actually said “let them eat cake.”

          • Well, I’ve heard that too, but what mattered at the time was that people thought she said it.

            And there was apparently no large stash of armament in the Bastille either, ready to be used against the people. But the people thought there was, and they tore the place down.

            Proof that propaganda works. Let us beware.

          • Glenn A Bolas says

            Not nitpicking. Her trial was a travesty. Marie Antoinette’s rehabilitation in the public consciousness is well overdue (Edmund Burke’s defense of her notwithstanding).

          • A rehabilitaton of Marie Antoinette may be overdue, and it might make good history, but it would be a different, and far lesser story than the more important, international item that a revolution was sparked because people thought she said it. Or that people thought the Bastille was full of weapons of mass destruction, to be used against the people. The Bastille too was “innocent” but the French aren’t likely to change national holidays knowing that. The symbol is real, evidenced by the rivers of blood shed, whether the events happened or not.

            And again, let us beware propaganda, whether falsified or whether true and withheld until an opportune time.

    • I think the Occupy movement has some legitimate grievances, but by its disorganized nature it does tend to attract extremists and other unsavory characters. Perhaps a good analogy is the way Vietnam War protests attracted communist agitators and general anti-American sentiment. So I am somewhat on the fence about it, though it seems to recently be taking a turn for the worse.

      • Joel, at least the war protesters had a coherent message: “STOP THE WAR”. What does Occupy have? “IT’S NOT FAIR”. Impressive, eh?

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          As a long-time gamer, “THAT’S NOT FAIR!” is the cry of the trid player who got caught. “FAIR (TM)” means “I ALWAYS GET MY WAY! ALWAYS!”

      • Honestly, the grievences I’ve heard read along the lines of ‘no one will pay my payments on a loan I took and out and used and now I don’t want to pay it back’

        From my perspective there are LOTS of problems with the ‘system’ – wall street and Washington – but the occupy people don’t seem to be aware of the real problems and are a distractions rather than a help.

        The other thing that worries me from the law enforcement perspective (my husband was a street cop for 15 years) is that when these things go bad it becomes a picture of spoiled middle class kids who some how seem to be able to just hang out all day and night vs the police. At no point with the financial system or the politicians take the hit when push literally comes to shove.

    • I guess I side with Dr. Sowell.

      There are ways to air gripes, and there are ways.

      The government might be a better target. I’m not so sure the government ought be giving tax dollars to companies so that they can stay in business. And I’m pretty sure that government forcing businesses to loan people to buy homes that they had no business buying, is a bad thing. Not that private businesses are never at fault, but then there are legal ways for redress.

      This style of protest can devolve into ‘get the rich’ exercise and quickly escalate to violence.

      Class warfare is not the American way and it does not bode well for this country.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        The government might be a better target.

        But that would mean raising hand against Obamessiah! “He Wuvs Us!”

        (O Come let us adore Him, O Come let us adore Him…)

  5. Glenn A Bolas says

    It’s John Philip Sousa’s birthday and….nothing?! Who is this Susan Tedeschi upstart anyway?

    • I wouldn’t say she’s an upstart, just not well known. Blues fans know about her. She’s married to Derek Trucks who’s uncle is a founding member of the Allman Brothers.

    • I had never heard of Susan Tedeschi. And forget Sousa. WHERE’S THE JONI MITCHELL?!!!???

      But on second thought, after hearing Susan, I wonder why I’ve missed out on her. She’s a bit like Bonnie Raitt or Janis Joplin.

      One song and I’m a fan.

  6. I can’t help but think that if the folks running Faith Evangelical Pres had any sense, instead of suing the driving range, they’d collect the balls and sell them. Bet it’d make more $$$ than most fundraisers …

  7. Hi Jeff and all. Jeff, how are you feeling? Better, I hope!

    I was thinking about the illustration that you have at the top of this blog. Sometimes the guy pushing the cart with his belongings is there and sometimes he is not. Here is my interpretation of that: sometimes he is checking out the rooms that surround the great hall. When he has been there for a while and decides it is not his “home” out he comes again to push his cart, again in the wilderness. (I know the reality of why he shows up and disappears is much less…involved?…but I will stick with my pretending!)

    If I make even more mistakes than usual here, it is because our computer died and we have hooked up a laptop to the keyboard that we like and now the monitor on the laptop is quite a distance from me and the font is not really big or dark (and my eyes are bad). Now we have to figure out if we are getting a new computer on a credit card since we have no money, paying to have the old one (six years old) wiped out and Windows put back on, contact Carbonite to see how to restore our documents, figure out what programs we bought and how to get them again…sigh. Sometimes I want to give up on computers.

    The “occupy” thing? I don’t know. I don’t watch TV news, just read the papers and get some online news. If they make things more difficult for the average citizen living around them, they will lose support. The group in Maine occupying space near the Capital house in Augusta has been very orderly from what I hear, keeping a clean camp. Someone blogged that if you are from Maine, you are always going to want a clean camp area.

    • Joanie, I was in Bangor on Tuesday and saw the campout there (Bangor is the largest city in eastern Maine, for you people from away, population 35,000 and nearly twice as big as state capitol Augusta. Ayuh, Maine is rural…).

      There were maybe a dozen or so tents on the library lawn, a few signs, nothing going on. The library is across the street from the Federal Building, and they weren’t picketing there. I don’t know if they were picketing anywhere that day, but I saw on their website that a protest at Bank of America was scheduled this week.

      I assume there’s local support too, and that the tents don’t indicate all of the protest effort. It looked more like a sleepover when my kids were little.

  8. “So what better to share and show the Gospel of God’s amazing grace than to hold a prayer meeting to address problems in America, including the rising Islamic movement. ”

    I was invited to a “prayer meeting” event, I went because I was hoping it would be a ecumenical gathering.
    The first meeting the men did not seem to have any real vision except “to get bigger” – More numbers!
    I never went back.
    a friend of mine went to 2 other “prayer meetings”.
    the next one was on the danger of Homosexuality, then the next meeting was on the danger of Islam.
    I have never met a open Homosexual or a Muslim in our town – but yet we are in Danger!
    I am thankful I never went back.

    • Our local Christian radio station has a two or three hour show every Saturday that is completely focused on the alleged existence of dangers of the rising islamist movement. Muslims are a tiny minority here, with no political or social clout of any kind. Completely alarmist and paranoid. The same station also features a lengthy show hawking gold and another hawking dietary supplements of dubious medicinal value.

      • Well, the Soviet Union is not there any more.. they need SOMETHING to use as a boogie man to gather the clan against.

  9. That Other Jean says

    Techno Mass brings a whole ‘nother dimension to liturgical dancing, doesn’t it (I was going to say “casts it in a whole different light,” but I couldn’t bring myself to do it)? I do wonder if the fun overshadows worship for the participants, though. Surely there ought to be more important aspects to church than filling the seats.

  10. Lou Engle is at Ford Field, home of the Detroit Lions, this weekend with TheCall praying against the demonic spirit he says has taken over Detroit.


    goofy. silly religious antics. absolutely useless as a strategy or any supposed kingdom benefit. another ‘crazy uncle’ episode in the uber-prophetic rhetoric camps working themselves into a religious frenzy trying to call down fire from heaven like the prophets of Baal (1Kings 18)…

    Lord, have mercy… 🙁

    • ..which is my biggest frustration in all of this.

      Prayer in Detroit? Great idea! Tying the problems in the US to Muslims, talking about demons possessing Detroit? Bad idea. I’m also reading that they have a few “former Muslim Terrorists” that rank up there with Mike Warnke in terms of credibility issues. Kamal Saleem has had his wild stories challenged by both CNN and Christianity Today.

      The thing is: IHOP/TheCall is the crazy uncle who always wants to pray at the Thanksgiving blessing, and then goes on a tangent about Obama, Revelation, America’s downfall, and the European Union in Prophecy….and forgets to pray for the meal.

      Want to pray? Go in your closet where you Lord alone can see you. Also — go pray this weekend for the Persecuted Church like many other churches are. That has to be more productive than what I’m watching on the GODtv feed right now.

  11. 20 kids? That’s absolutely mind-boggling.
    Peace, Brian

    • Margaret Catherine says

      And all with ‘J’ names. I know an Arkansas family (Catholic) that did that; but even with their ‘Yours, Mine, and Ours’ situation they only made it to 16. Maybe 17 or 18, some of the children were already out on their own. Which is part of how having that many is possible, they’re not financially responsible for all of the children at the same time and the babysitting is free.

      Good on them for this: “As we’ve read the Bible, we believe God says that children are gift and a blessing and a reward from him. And after the painful experience that we walked through in our marriage, losing the baby that we lost to the miscarriage, it broke our hearts. I think at that point was when we gave this area of our life to God and asked him to forgive us and to give us a love for children like he loves children. And from there, just receiving those gifts that God wants to give us, and so that’s our heart in it. ”

      • Except the Duggars are DEEP into Gothard’s teachings and are ‘building an army for God’, which requires biological children for Gothard approved standards. Adopted children need not apply for the ranks (generational curses and all, you know). Translation, when Michelle Duggar says ‘saying there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers’ – my son is considered a weed. Yap, big feelings on the Gothard thing.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          — attributed to an X-Treme Euro-Mullah

  12. How is it that I don’t hear about Fairfax Pres? I’m a news junkie and its in my backyard?

  13. If Fairfax Pres is really into John Piper, I think I know where I should take golf lessons? I do need to work on my driving skills!!! Golf anyone? (Four!!!!)

  14. I just got an email the other day from a former co-worker with whom I had the pleasure to be laid off when the organization we worked for closed up shop. She had found another job, but now that, too, has come to an end. Her husband worked for a very large telecommunications company for 30+ years, and worked like a dog, often putting in 50-60 hour work weeks. His company was bought out several years ago, giving him the privilege of keeping his job and losing most of his pension, or keeping his pension and losing his job. He kept the pension but has not found another job. So, as this couple who has worked, and worked hard, for all their adult lives near the age of 60, raised two self-supporting kids, attend and support their church, they now have no jobs, no healthcare, and none in the foreseeable future.

    Is this the country I want to live in? No. You ask do I support the Occupy Movement? I don’t know if they will succeed in anything, but at least they are being noticed, and I can tell you, they are not all a bunch of lazy, dirty, unemployed slackers. Ask my friend…

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says

      And when you lay off or fire employees, you don’t have to pay them any more. This frees up $$$ for more important things. Fat Management Bonuses, Here We Come!

  15. I was at Occupy Wall Street the day it started, and have been alternating between sleeping at home and at Occupy Boston since September, as a part of the “protest chaplains” movement. It’s been simultaneously inspiring, frustrating, and deeply tiring.

    The good stuff: at Occupy Boston, the homeless folks from the neighborhood were entirely integrated into the camp from nearly the beginning. Almost our entire security team is homeless people; they have the street smarts and survival skills that the rest of us need to learn. The food tent for weeks was so overflowing with food donations that not only were they feeding the protesters and the homeless and anyone else who stopped by, but they were giving out bags of food to any visitor who needed food to take home to their family. Up until recently, anyone who wanted a blanket could go to the logistics tent and just get one, no questions asked. Ditto for sock and warm clothing. It felt like a real “economy of abundance.” In this sense, the movement hinted at what God’s kingdom ought to be.

    But then there’s the bad stuff: the drug use. The fist fights. The arguments. The lack of vision. The aversion to authority, even if that authority takes the form of someone saying, “could you please not smoke pot in the camp? We don’t want to breathe that and we don’t want that associated with this movement.” The hard drugs and drunkenness on cold nights; the fear that someone who passes out in that cold won’t wake up. The aversion to Christianity. The fact that the camp isn’t entirely safe for women. The recent movement by the protesters to try to push the homeless out because a feeling of fear and scarcity is taking over.

    So yeah, depending on your perspective you can see both a lot of good and a lot of bad. The main questions for me are:

    1. How could we as Christians begin living out this sort of “economy of abundance” in an intentionally Christocentric way, sharing our food, our homes, and our lives and showing the world something better than its economy of hoarding and scarcity and fear?

    2. Given that in all likelihood, given the trajectory the US is on, within 10-20 years there will be large encampments of homeless and jobless folks in most of our major cities, what can we learn _now_ that will equip us to interact with those camps once they begin to spring up and grow?

    • Interact in a tent city? Heck, most likely I’ll be in one.

      • I meant, Interact with people in a tent city? Heck, I’ll most likely be a resident!

        • And when I say “in” one, I don’t mean as a protester, but because I fear in retirement (which is a number of years away) I will have nowhere else to go. I fear being in the same boat as my friend who is nearing retirement with no job, no healthcare, no future. Working hard all your life no longer means anything in America; we are not humans but human resources that are tossed aside when no longer needed.

  16. Randy Thompson says

    Prayer is always a good thing, even when it’s crazy people doing the praying!

    We live in crazy and confused times. The Tea Party is out-of-touch-with-reality crazy. The Occupy people are also crazy, but more sensibly so, it seems to me. No one pays any attention (at all) to the National Council of Churches and the oldline churches affiliated with it. No one pays any attention to the National Association of Evangelicals.

    Crazy or not, I think anybody called to pray is following a godly impulse which leads to sanity, even if all the same old principalities and powers, like the political parties, big business, the government, the Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, and who knows what else, are still alive and kicking. God bless the folks in Detroit.

  17. Bram Stoker…..Dracula is one of my favorite books!

  18. Personally, I find that the “Occupy” folks, besides trying to lump every anti-establishment grievence into one pot of gumbo (and then wonder why no one wants any), are simply targeting the wrong folks. None of the stuff on “Wall Street” would have happened without major enablers in the halls of government – on *both* sides of the aisle. The problem needs to be fixed at the source (although, at times, that’s a bit of a “we have met the enemy and he is us” realization, too).

    As for churches getting involved in the “Occupy” phenomenom: Why would any Christian organization ally with them, when one of their prime movitators is a concious decision to violate the Tenth Commandment?

    • Why can’t the “source” be both? (gov and corp) I share some of the OWS concerns and as I understand them, it is gov and the bankers who are being protested… I know I certainly consider both accountable… but many in american churches have been influenced to focus only on ‘big’ gov as the root of all our ills. I’m sorry, but it is most definitely both.
      I don’t entirely agree with the attitude and all the occupy tactics but maybe some of their frustration is justifiable due to the american church’s abdicating its role of prophetic and lifestyle witness against the greed, power-seeking and corruption running rampant (And in many cases the church is a willing accomplice/cheerleader of said greed and corruption !)

      • Andy – there definitely is culpability with *some* corporations, and there has been a lack of prosecutions of actual wrongdoing by the federal and various state governments. But the Occupy crowd confuses corporatism (or “crony capitalism”), in which the government and corporations collude to distort the marketplace with actual free market capitalism. In the process, they lump all businesses together as “bad”, regardless of whether any particular business behaved ethically/morally or not. And the politicians and government bureaucrats get off scot free, because government is always “good”.

        As for “the church”: Many congregations (and the leadership of many denominations) have turned to government to provide the types of “Christian charity” that they would have provided a century ago, even if that means forced seizing of assets (aka taxes), instead of convincing their members to follow the example of the Good Samaritan. “I pay taxes for social services – why should I give more to my church (or give of my time and talents) for that? .” Nevermind that billions of dollars have been wasted by these same government programs on programs that may sound good on the campaign trail, but which, in reality, have been a dismal failure – or worse – and which may be based on principles directly opposite to the ones they preach on Sunday mornings.

        I’m still looking for the passage in the Gospels where Jesus tells the disciples to go to Pilate, Herod, or the temple priests and demand higher taxes and more government programs for the “least of these”.

        • I would agree with most of your points because I think those things have happened. I think some of your concerns and some of the OWS concerns have created the problems. In some ways you, I and they are right. Now how could we all work together to tackle some of those problems – despite our flaws, overemphases and mis-emphasis?

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          And the politicians and government bureaucrats get off scot free, because government is always “good”.

          South Park described the Occupy crowd this way: “They can’t admit they were wrong voting for Obamessiah, so they have to blame SOMEBODY!”

          And the whole thing DOES look more and more like that South Park episode (“The Core” parody) with Cartman vs the Hippies. Where “the Big Demonstrations To Change the World turned out to be too much work so Lets Get High and Do A Drum Circle.”

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          Morning drive-time had an anecdote about Occupy Los Angeles (i.e. Bring Down Wall Street by pooping in the planters). Journalist was checking out the Occupy Tent City late at night and had to go. Went down the line of porta-potties; only one wasn’t locked with “occupied” indicator set. Opened the door of the only one showing “vacant”. Billow of pot smoke cleared to reveal a same-sex “Driscoll preaching Song of Songs” right “into the Magic Microphone”.

          “I Didn’t Need to See That…”

          (He ended up going in the Handicapped Porta-Potty. Didn’t mention if he was censured by the People’s Committee for it.)