October 29, 2020

Riffs: 04:02:09: The Episcopal Church Persecutes The Oppressed Muslim-Christian Minority

UPDATE II: Creech has sold over $220 of beads, string and trinkets since I lost my salvation. You people are awesome. His kids may be able to have shoes for Easter.

UPDATE: Humor on board. Beware if not using proper gear.

In a shocking demonstration of intolerance toward those whom God has just made differently, the Episcopal diocese of Rhode Island has defrocked a minister who is both a Muslim and a Christian. You can read the shocking story for yourself .

The Episcopal church continues the persecution of those invisible minorities in its midst; those who find the doors of ministry closed to them simply because they affirm both Allah and the Holy Trinity as being one and the same.

Protests outside TEC headquarters seemed to bring no reaction. The church turned a dull, deaf ear to a pastor who wanted to do nothing more than affirm that both the Nicene Creed and the Koran were her true guides for life.

In this time of division and disagreement, we need to affirm those who are different. We need to embrace our diversity. Jesus and Mohammed would have embraced the courage of this young woman who refused to see differences when there were so many similarities. Now she will be unable to go to Mecca and pray the “Our Father.”

Rejecting those who call upon Yahweh and Allah, Jesus and Mohammad is an example of the small-minded bigotry that continues to grip the Episcopal church. Recent news reports indicate that the church may be refusing to allow the recently defrocked pastor to have a Muslim-Christian wedding ceremony as well.

How long will it be before we come out of the night and embrace one another as this woman has? How long till we see that Mohammed and Jesus were, after all, both against kicking puppies? Both had mothers who were women? Both liked hot sauce on their boneless wings.

By the way, a CNN reporter who covered this story was fired when it was discovered he was also working for Fox News.

Comments

  1. Martha, i think we need to agree to disagree on this right now… because a lot of what we hear about Islam comes from sources that really don’t know much about the various theological schools and branches within it, nor about Qur’anic scholarship and interpretation, nor… well, I wish some of my friends who do mission work in the Muslim world were available to reply to you here. I lack their knowledge. But I did post a link to someone who’s highly recommended by all of them!

    Cheers,
    e.

  2. Ky Boy but not now says

    adhunt

    Some of us here would love to join an AMiA church. Or maybe even a break away TEC church. But we each have our reasons for not doing so. And given the thin ranks at this time it’s hard to find them nearby.

    But yes we also feel the TEC is a bus where 3 of the 4 tires are flat and the passengers are debating how far they can go on just one tire instead of fixing the 3 flat ones.

    As to how long things take, I’ve been told by serveral AMiA pastors that the Anglican communion does have a mindset of trying to reconcile that sometimes seems to never end no matter what the sin.

  3. Heather W says

    From someone who IS Jewish and a follower of Christ, I can say that the situation is completely incongruent with being Muslim and christian.

    Judaism’s scriptures testify of Jesus through and through. Islam’s scriptures testify against Him.

    Christianity rests on Judaism, and recognizes that Judaism is its root. Christianity does not claim that the Jewish scriptures are false, or distorted, but accepts them as is and builds on them.

    Islam does not claim to be built on Christianity, but rather supplants it. Islam does not accept Christian scripture, but instead disowns it and replaces it with its own anti-christ documents.

    As to what is or isn’t Christ-like, we do need to keep in mind the Christ who told Peter to “get behind me Satan” or who told a Samaritan woman that she was a dog. Christ isn’t always totally ..nice.

  4. Ky Boy but not now says

    e2c
    “An aside: would we react in the same way (cutting someone off) if they said they were both Jewish and Christian?”

    The first (few 1000? 10,000?) Christians were all Jews. And for a long time time Jews were the vast majority of Christians as the faith spread via the Synagogs of the eastern Roman empire. What we call the Jewish religion now are the descendants of the ones who never accepted Christ.

    So, yes, you can be both Jewish and Christain.

  5. Ky Boy but not now says

    e2c
    “Martha, i think we need to agree to disagree on this right now… because a lot of what we hear about Islam comes from sources that really don’t know much about the various theological schools and branches within it, nor about Qur’anic scholarship and interpretation, nor… well, I wish some of my friends who do mission work in the Muslim world were available to reply to you here. I lack their knowledge.”

    A friend of mine was a cleric in Egypt before he converted and then fled the country before the police arrested him for said conversion. He would think the lady this in the article is in serious sin or seriously deluded. And he does his stuff. It’s amazing to hear him talk. I think he has the Bible and the Qur’an memorized and can quote verses in both English and Arabic. He runs a ministry spreading the Gosple via internet radio broadcasts.

  6. OK, let’s all decided exactly what this woman believes without even bothering to ask her!

    that’s what some of you are doing. You wouldn’t think being judged without a hearing was fair if it were you we were talking about, would we?

    more to the point, things are very culturally different in the ME countries (and West Africa, and South and East Asia, and in the Caucasus, and in parts of China, etc.) than they are here. We Westerners tend to judge others and their beliefs and cultures by and with our standards – including various Western versions of Christianity. There are, still, lots of Christians in the ME, North Africa and elsewhere who are not evangelical – who have a longer history of being “in the faith” than does most of the Western church, be it Catholic, Protestant – whatever.

    We are – I am – very quick to judge people, aren’t we? (As opposed to listening to them 1st, then talking with them.)

    [/end comments from me in this thread]

  7. Big Chief says

    So now we have both sides of the coin. iMonk is condemned because he has an advertisement for rosaries. Say something about beads and you’re on the way to being a secret Cardinal. On the other side we have the Episcomuslim who is deposed. What makes this “the other side of the coin” is the fact that it’s quite clear that there are bishops in TEC who would have let her continue. And yes TEC is now having to deal with a man put forward for bishop who evidently denies Trinitarian doctrine, atonement through Christ’s death, and evidently the doctrine of sin.

    So where do we draw the line. As an Episcopalian I like the Via Media. It indicates we are to tolerate variation on that which is not central, while agreeing on what is essential (I’m crazy enough to think beads aren’t central). Unfortunately TEC is well on the way to the point that NOTHING is defined as central and essential. A truly Post-Modern church. All is vanity.

    So where do we draw the line? Isn’t that the tipping point question for every schism that has rocked the Church since 1054?

  8. Christopher K says

    adhunt, I actually meant what I posted. I was genuinely (note the lack of sarcasm quotes,) hoping you would expound on what you saw as a lack of knowledge from those posting on the board. If I wanted to be a jerk, I would have prefaced it by saying “Well if you’re so smart, why don’t you enlighten us?” Alas, I only intended my post to be taken at face value. Sorry for the miscommunication.

  9. Big Chief,
    You have to go back a lot further than just 1054 for line controversies, but your point is well taken. Pretty soon we are going to have the evangelical equivalent of Rodney King asking “why can’t we all just get along?” without any irony whatsoever.

  10. martha – I’d take that letter!

    KY Boy but not now – We’ve been known to change a tire or two in the past, but we try to run them until the tires are shredded. On AMiA pastors saying the Communion seems to have endless patience for almost any sin…I believe there was a story that went something like this: “How many times must I forgive a repeat offender Lord; seven times?” “Nope. SEVENTY times seven (ie – forever)”

    Christopher K – that would be my bad entirely. My sincere apologies for misinterpreting you. More so than merely this thread I have noticed much misinformation about TEC. Be it news concerning this disconcerting “budhhist” bishop, which as it turns out is not going so well for him, 10 or so bishops rejecting and counting… Or exagerated stories of our apostasy. We’ve still got the ’79 Prayer Book, and until that changes to something heretical we are still orthodox.

  11. Katherine says

    I live in the Middle East. All Anglicans here (and Baptists, Presbyterians and Catholics etc etc) “call upon Allah”, as it is the name of God used in the Arabic Bible. But I don’t think this poor lady would get along any better here than in the US, there’s simply no reconciling the Koranic verses many have quoted here with a Christian view of Trinity.

  12. Christopher K. says

    adhunt – No worries. Have a great weekend. 🙂

  13. Going back to the original intent of the post:

    What a horrible trial this poor woman has been put through. We of the faith community must stand up for the rights of all to freely express his or her individual belief systems. If not, we risk loosing the right to express in a public forum the desire to have the higher being of the universe bring good feelings to all people regardless of race, creed, or tattooing practice. As long as said practice does not involve wearing fur.

    What is needed immediately is a nation-wide initiative, lead by a White House-appointed czar, to implement sensitivity training at all levels within the 501c community to ensure that this sort of thing cannot happen again. After all, since the government is being deprived of tax dollars (which is equivalent to receiving government funding), it only makes sense that said non-profit NGO’s should be forced to follow government rules and hiring practices.

  14. There are some admirable things about Islam – particularly in the five pillars: Confession of One God, Prayer (couldn’t we all do with a little more prayer), Alms Giving, Fasting… But, she’s not saying that there’s things about Islam that we could use a little more of in Christianity. Heck! I’ll say that! We need to not just say there is only one God, but act like it too. We need more prayer. We need more alms giving, and a little fasting probably wouldn’t hurt a single one of us. But, what she’s claiming is to be both a Christian and a Muslim, and you just can’t do that. Islam rejects Jesus as the Son of God, and that is the very cornerstone of Christianity. If you do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, Son of the Living God, you are not a Christian. Period.

  15. Oh if you want to see where this kind of thing will lead you, all you have to do is look at the majority of Yearly Meetings in Quakerism. It started with people claiming to be two religions at once, or people who were straight up not Christian coming into meetings because they liked the Quaker style of worship. Now there’s people running around saying they’re Buddist Quakers, Muslim Quakers, ATHEIST Quakers… Most yearly meetings are basically universalist. I’ve heard rumors of meetings that have gone so far that if you stand up and say, “Jesus…” people gasp. I think my yearly meeting (Ohio) is the only one left where you HAVE to be a Christian to hold any kind of membership. Britain Yearly Meeting has removed all references to Christ from their Book of Discipline, except where it says they used to be a Christian outfit, but now they’re not. I sometimes cross paths with a woman who attends a nearby *liberal* meeting. People always think because we’re both Quakers we should get along great, but we mostly ignore eachother and make wide circles around eachother. She thinks I’m terribly intollerant because I believe Jesus is the only way to God. I think she’s opened her mind so far all her brains fell out.

  16. *Belize: And everyone in Balencia gowns with red corsages, and big dance palaces full of music and lights and racial impurity and gender confusion. And all the deities are creole, mulatto, brown as the mouths of rivers. Race, taste and history finally overcome. And you ain’t there.

    Roy Cohn: And Heaven?

    Belize: That was Heaven, Roy.*

    Angels in America
    Tony Kushner

  17. Why would the TEC boot her and not Spong? Can’t figure that one out.

  18. I’ve been working on my doctrines
    All the livelong day.
    Got to get myself to Glory.
    Help me, folks, I pray.

    Atheism had some good points;
    It let me off the hook.
    It also freed up Sunday morning
    To read my favorite book.

    Then I checked in with the Presbys;
    They weren’t a lot of fun.
    I never got the “T” in TULIP;
    In fact, it made me run.

    Methodists were kind of pleasant.
    The Quakers were quite nice.
    I’m not really much of either,
    So they both told me “No dice.”

    Going it alone with Calvin
    Made my tummy hurt;
    Switching off to Mr. John Knox
    Put me lower than dirt.

    Maybe I should try a woman?
    But it’s a real short list.
    Eddy never could convince me
    My toothache don’t exist.

    Can’t be no Episcopalian;
    They’re too weird for me.
    All that kneeling and processing:
    They’re RC Wannabes.

    Don’t think I can be a Baptist;
    Immersion makes me sneeze.
    RCs kneeling round an altar
    Are too hard on my knees.

    Charismatics make me nervous.
    “Tongues” more nervous still.
    And I just leave the room when my friend
    Turns on Benny Hill.

    My search so far has been a wide one,
    Though maybe not so deep.
    For now I’ll stick to “Jesus loves me.”
    And “Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep.”

  19. Headless Unicorn Guy says

    As open minded as I am . . . this one was a no-brainer. Relativism taken to the extreme . . . seated on the throne in Notre Dame as the new goddess of religion. — JMJ

    Remember what happened the last time they enthroned a whore in Notre Dame as Goddess of the New Faith.

    In religion, Multicultural Diversity is generally known as “Syncretism”; put different faiths (even vaguely-related or unrelated ones) into a blender and pour out the pureed results — a Great Mush God like tapioca pudding, the Fete of the Supreme Being that could be anybody.

    And Multicultural Diversity in all venues is an unstable state, lasting only until the most dynamic culture in the mix absorbs the others (“AMERICA! WHISKY! SEXY!”) or the most aggressive culture destroys the others (“AL’LAH’U AKBAR!”). Because One True Way is a VERY stable rest state.

  20. Headless Unicorn Guy says

    Islam does not claim to be built on Christianity, but rather supplants it. Islam does not accept Christian scripture, but instead disowns it and replaces it with its own anti-christ documents. — Heather W

    More accurately, Islam appears to be a syncretic blend of Abrahamic monotheism applied to Arab Tribal beliefs, optimized for pre-industrial Arab Tribal culture in the harsh conditions of the Arabian Peninsula. And it has shown much less flexibility and adaptability then either Judaism or Christianity. (Maybe that’s due to their unbroken string of early success; Christianity was an underground outlaw faith for its first two centuries, and Judaism periodically gets stomped on by the goyim. But the curse of Unbroken Immediate/Early Success sets you in your ways as the One True Way and stagnates you, whether your name’s Chris Paolini or Apple Computer — or Islam. Maybe Islam needs a Babylonian Captivity/Destruction of the Temple experience like Judaism had — a BAD reality check in order to “mellow out”.)

    As to what is or isn’t Christ-like, we do need to keep in mind the Christ who told Peter to “get behind me Satan” or who told a Samaritan woman that she was a dog. Christ isn’t always totally ..nice. — Heather W

    Ever heard of the phrase “Lawful Good does NOT mean Lawful Nice”?

  21. Some thoughts, responses, etc.

    Imonk,

    I agree we have to look out for the flock. that’s why the priest was inhibited.

    To all,

    The critique of slowness can’t be laid at the Bishop of R.I.’s feet. This priest was canonically resident in her diocese, but working on the other side of the country. The R.I. Bishop has to trust that the Bishop on site in Seattle will be “guarding the trust”. If I remember correctly, the R.I. Bishop didn’t even know about this dual faith thing until it became a public interest piece in certain media outlets.

    She became aware of it and moved into deliberate discussions with this priest.

    Discipline must be exercised with sobriety, and the search to understand and be clear so that we are not authoritarian, arbitrary, or abrupt. This way we are disciplining in love, as a corrective and the hope for reconciliation.

    The R.I. Bishop demonstrated faithfulness, wisdom and charity.

    The disturbing piece is the outgoing Bishop in the Olympia Diocese (seattle area) and all that blather about “exciting possibilities”. then again, he may not have had a full picture of what was really going on either. It’s a big diocese and it’s hard to keep tabs on the nuances and ins-and-outs of everyone’s spiritual journey.

    Besides…the priest in question, for better or for worse, is the “problem” of the Bishop under whom she is resident.

    Even a lot of “liberal” Episcopalians agree with the deposition.

    On another front, it will be interesting to see what happens with the dual Buddhist-Christian bishop of North Michigan…

    There are increasing calls for the standing committees and the House of Bishops to not consent to his consecration. Not only because of the irregularities in the selection process, but because of the theological issues.

  22. “Remember what happened the last time they enthroned a whore in Notre Dame as Goddess of the New Faith.

    In religion, Multicultural Diversity is generally known as “Syncretism”; put different faiths (even vaguely-related or unrelated ones) into a blender and pour out the pureed results — a Great Mush God like tapioca pudding, the Fete of the Supreme Being that could be anybody.”

    One thing I NEVER thought I’d see referenced on this website was furry fandom, let alone furry fandom IN SCHISM – way to make the character of inter-necine religious disputes totally meta-awkward by pointing out their creepy similitude with bizarre internet subcultures, Headless. Half my brain just jiggled and separated from itself.

  23. How this one woman does excite opinions.

    First, it seems that Huston Smith is correct in predicting that if the goal of having one world religion were achieved on Saturday, there would be two world religions by Sunday.

    Second, are all the groups that self-identify as Christian really members of one religion? Some history of religion scholars contend that Christianity is a group of different religions with a more or less common source. How do you get those Pentecostals who do not believe in the Trinity, the liberal Quakers, the Jesuits and other RCC traditions, the Orthodox, plus the standard brand Protestants and a variety of fundamentalists and evangelicals into one tent with a sign over the door the says Christian?

    The history of religion scholars argue that the other world religions — Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Islam — tend to break into only two or three different schools of thought, not literally hundreds as is the case with Christianity.

    If this is correct, why is that?

  24. or going to a church where we must defend Gene Robinson as a legit bishop and a lot of other nonsense.

    No one ever told me I had to defend Gene Robinson as a legit Bishop.

    I also appreciate the humor of the post. I can’t add much to what Nathan and others have already said, but I will voice my appreciation of Bishop Wolf of RI for her pastoral handling of this situation. She inhibited Redding from exercising any sort of pastoral ministry for over a year while giving her a pastoral directive to reflect upon the incompatibility of the Christian faith and Islam. She then met with the woman, after which she gave her a further period of several months to think about what her refusal to recant would mean, and only then did she take the step of defrocking her. She performed her role as a defender of the faith admirably and many of our Bishops could learn a lot from her. Perhaps part of the misunderstanding here could be chalked up to a different understanding of what ordination is, i.e. functional vs. ontological.

    At any rate, John Spong was never disciplined because it is an unfortunate aspect of TEC polity that the Bishops are expected to police themselves, which they rarely do (though they have in the case of Charles Bennison of PA). Indeed, I believe a good deal of the blame for the current fragmentation of Anglicanism in the USA can be laid at the feet of that poor design. We would be much better off if we had a juridical arm like the Methodists. As it is, God is dealing with us in his way and time anyway.

  25. urban otter says

    “The history of religion scholars argue that the other world religions — Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and Islam — tend to break into only two or three different schools of thought, not literally hundreds as is the case with Christianity.”

    If Christianity is based on the Bible, and every believer has the duty and right to read and interpret the Bible for himself, there are going to be thousands upon thousands of different interpretations.

    You could define Christianity to include anybody who calls himself “Christian” or go to other extreme and determine that almost every Christian is his own little sect of one. Determining how many variations of Christianity exist depends on how broad or narrow you make your categories, and whose definition of Christian dogma you accept as authoritative.

    Unless you render your definitions so vague and inclusive as to be meaningless, Islam and Christianity are not the same religion. Whereas Mormons, Protestants, Catholics, and Oneness Pentecostals all believe that Jesus is God (although they don’t agree on the Trinity), Islam is clear that Jesus is not God.

    Either Jesus is God or he’s not. Either Muhammad is the last prophet or he’s not. Either the Archangel Gabriel dictated the Koran or he did not. It perplexes me that the TEC priest did not immediately recognize that Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Did she ever talk to any Muslims? I can’t imagine that any imam would accept the idea that one can be both a Christian and a Muslim at the same time.

  26. aliasmoi says

    Has anyone else ever wondered if Bishop Spong is secretly a satanist?

  27. May I direct your attention to the Wikipedia articles for “Ann Holmes Redding” and “Kevin Thew Forrester” (the Zen guy).

    Turns out there was also a New Jersey Episcopal priest, Bill Melnyk, who got defrocked for being a Druid. But Wikipedia doesn’t have anything on him yet.

  28. Ah, the priesthood of all believers.

    I remember that from Lutheran Sunday school and confirmation classes.

    Thanks for the clarification Urban Otter.

    BTW I’m liberal to a degree but was not suggesting Christianity and Islam can be re-mixed into a coherent belief system. And I am not sympathetic to that idea.

  29. RWS2 – amen to good ole’ moderate liberals!

  30. *Has anyone else ever wondered if Bishop Spong is secretly a satanist?*

    No. The greatest trick satan ever pulled was making religious people think he actually did exist.

  31. You are very gravely mistaken to think that Muhammad is the same, or similar to Jesus.

    The entire religion of Islam is a message of ungrace, Allah punishing people for their sins and rewarding them for good works. Where is the grace? Is this not completely contrary to the fundamentals of the Christian religion; that all our righteousness are as dirty as rags and we need further payment for our sins?

    All of Christianity rests on the fact that God is willing to give us grace, which is what we do not deserve. Christ came to serve and so that we could know the Father through him.

    Christ said “I am THE way THE truth and THE light, NO ONE comes to the father, EXCEPT through me.”
    There is no room for anyone else … the idea that Muhammad was, in any way shape or form, compatible with Christ is ludicrous.

    I encourage you (the author) to watch this video: http://www.break.com/usercontent/2008/4/Fitna-New-English-Version-485249.html

    The video reveals some of the true natures of Islam, which I believe–in my opinion–to be in fact formulated by the enemy of God.

    –And by the way, the maker of that video was given a death warrant by the fundamental Islamic community by the way, and it appears in-print of Islamic governed newspapers–

    Essentially what Islam is, is a religion of intolerance and salvation by works. True, many believers in Islam are backslidden and prescribe to a liberal, harmless interpretation of the Qur’an. But the true idea of Islam is to conquer and convert the known world. If you read the Qur’an, which I encourage you to do, you will see this. Convert or die; as simple as that. The fundamentalists wield the correct interpretation of the book and Muhammad’s teachings, and make up a large portion (something like 10% of a BILLION people) of the Islamic community. These are the sort of people issuing ‘jihads’, and not against governments, nations, or powers but against ALL ‘non-believers’.

    From the perspective of a Christian worldview, its teachers have all the elements of false prophets, which were warned against in the coming age. One of the characteristics, the Bible teaches, of a false prophet is sexual immorality. Muhammad was a libidinous, lascivious man. He was a violent man and a pedophile who had sex and force-married his 9 year old child-relative. According to Islam, the legal age of marriage is 9 years old, just because Muhammad said that ‘God told him that’.

    Allah is not God and Muhammad is not his prophet.

    I challenge anyone who disagrees with that.

    Learn the truth, which will set you free.

  32. Headless Unicorn Guy says

    One thing I NEVER thought I’d see referenced on this website was furry fandom, let alone furry fandom IN SCHISM – way to make the character of inter-necine religious disputes totally meta-awkward by pointing out their creepy similitude with bizarre internet subcultures, Headless. Half my brain just jiggled and separated from itself. — Pat Lynch

    I try to make everybody’s day a bit more surreal.

    And as someone who’s been involved in Furry Fandom before it even heard of the Internet, I can attest that there were furries and proto-furries who made their fandom into their Religion. Their One True Way Fundamentalist Religion. These True Believer types are the origin of most of the “News of the Weird” stories you hear about “FURRREEEEEE”s.

    Because when you let anything take over your life with all the unsmiling seriousness of a fundamentalist religion, you have Left Behind any chance of a reality check and there is no way to keep from drifting off on a tangent.

  33. Oh come on people….

    This is so typical for what the rest of us “eastern coptic orthodox catholic evangelical buddhist hindus” run into…. but confucius had warned us of the intolerance we would face 😎

    Let’s all gather around a campfire and sing kumbaja

    But all kidding and sarcasm aside. All these practices above (and yes I’ve dabbled in some of them in a little “lost” period in my life), have some good things in them. Certainly meditation practices, prayer, fasting, respect for others, for the environment, etc are all good things that usually we as evangelicals can use a little more of. I am still awed each time in an Eastern Orthodox service. Talk about thinking about the “mystery of God”. Nothing better 😉

    But frankly, combining the different faiths and accept both as truth is a bit far-fetched. Almost sound like a form of Pascal’s wager on all fronts. Personally, I think Islam and Christianity are too diametrically opposed to be able to be reconciled. One can still appreciate their honesty in worship, their perseverance during Ramaddan, etc.. doesn’t mean it’s the truth or aligns with Christianity.

    Not judging this person, but I think the TEC did the right thing.

    In Him
    Mick

    PS: If the fact that this trappist Monk can brew better beer thanks to his Zen skills… I’m all for it 😉 Yes.. I’m from Belgium.

  34. The defrocked lady was either fooling herself or taught by someone who did not know Islam. We all know that happens. Fortunately, her misinformation and/or misunderstanding of Islam only lead to her embracing two faiths and finally loosing her job, not killing anyone riding a bus. A Muslim can not be an Episcopal priest. No offense to any particular faith, but it does not work that way if you are Muslim and apparently if you are an Episcopalian priest. The Episcopalian church was not wrong in defrocking her. I saw that coming two years ago.

  35. Brian Pendell says

    *BOING*

    Dog-gone it, Michael! You’ve broke my sarcast-o-meter! Now I’ve gotta get another one from Radio Shack and they aren’t cheap at all.

  36. I get that the post is sarcastic. I agree that it’s a little difficult to get up and say the Nicene creed and also believe the entire Koran. But, I’m offended by many of these comments. Come on, you all. Not all muslims blow themselves up on buses. Can’t we for once discuss religion without bringing in the fanatics? Enjoy the post, but don’t bash another people of another faith.
    Heather W.- you go girl!

  37. I guess I should have read all Heather W.’s posts before giving her a cheer. I like the first one.

  38. WOW, first time I ever checked out this site and it makes my head spin. What some folks of faith have to say baffles me. It would be great if those same folks really knew or understood the theology they claim to represent. 1 Jn 4:1-3 says “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” I have a hard time understanding how we miss the big picture.

  39. I am confused. Islam rejects the Trinity entirely and claims that Christians are polytheists. I wonder what Muslims think about this. Frankly I am surprised with the Episcopal church, considering their push for a “one world religion.” I am not sure how you defend the claim that the Muslim Allah is a member of the Holy Trinity of Christianity. Could you please explain yourself more?

  40. I’ve read the Gospels.
    And I’ve read Mohammad’s particular spin on Jesus in the Koran.
    What I fear is that attempting to resolve the two in a single unified theology might actually rupture the fabric of time and space,thereby causing the earth to be swallowed by a black hole.