February 21, 2020

An Internet Monk Exclusive: What The Bible Says About the American Economic Crisis

What does the Bible say about our current financial crisis?

Evangelicals who want to know how to pray for our economy and its leaders deserve to hear the Bible’s message for these financial times.

As a result of in-depth study on the subject of Biblical Principles for Financial Success, your Internet Monk can now release to the public the definitive teaching on “What The Bible Says About The American Economic Crisis.”

This is teaching you won’t get anywhere else. Be sure and read it all!

What the Bible says about the Wall Street crisis:

Revelation 18 1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was made bright with his glory. 2 And he called out with a mighty voice,
Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
She has become a dwelling place for demons,
a haunt for every unclean spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.
3 For all nations have drunk
the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.

4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others,
and repay her double for her deeds;
mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,
I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.
8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning. 10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say,
Alas! Alas! You great city,
you mighty city, Babylon!
For in a single hour your judgment has come.

11 And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo anymore, 12 cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble, 13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
14 The fruit for which your soul longed
has gone from you,
and all your delicacies and your splendors
are lost to you,
never to be found again!

15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
16 Alas, alas, for the great city
that was clothed in fine linen,
in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,
with jewels, and with pearls!
17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.

And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off 18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning,
What city was like the great city?

19 And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out,
Alas, alas, for the great city
where all who had ships at sea
grew rich by her wealth!
For in a single hour she has been laid waste.
20 Rejoice over her, O heaven,
and you saints and apostles and prophets,
for God has given judgment for you against her!

21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,
So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence,
and will be found no more;
22 and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters,
will be heard in you no more,
and a craftsman of any craft
will be found in you no more,
and the sound of the mill
will be heard in you no more,
23 and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth

Comments

  1. ROTFLMAO!!!!! That’s the funniest thing I’ve read all day, and I have a BIG list of web comics I follow! Hilarious!!!

    In some ways it’s sort of sad because I know someone will come along with something like that.

    I can see it now – Left Behind is going to revamp their predictions with the Fed being the Great Whore! Bernanke is the Antichrist! No! Paulson is! No, wait, Paulson is the prophet of the dragon. Err, maybe Bush is the dragon. No wait, Obama is the dragon! Yeah that’s it! Obama is the beast, Bernanke is the … um … Prophet and Paulson is the Whore of Babylon!

    Oh bother. What about the RCC and Pope? I thought they were Babylon. Oh well. Regardless, if you don’t agree with me then you won’t be raptured.

  2. I’m no dispy or Left Behind fan, but that’s pretty much the text I’d preach on if someone asked me what the Bible has to say about this sort of thing.

  3. Man, am I glad we don’t live in Babylon!

    I’m so happy bad things like that don’t happen to “real” Christians like me, otherwise I might be left with nothing but Jesus. Imagine how scary that would be!

  4. I heard a pastor preach on Revelation just weeks ago. He said that we are far too hung up on trying to identify “who” characters in Revelation represent, rather than “what”. The result? Evangelicals who have thousands of theories about the end-times, but no discernment about the allurements and temptations of the world system described in those pages – the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life. Now, we are slaves to this system. What will we dutifully go along with to keep the supply of turkish delights flowing?

  5. I guess I’m too surrounded by dispy, Left Behind stuff. 🙂 As soon as I hear talk of an application of Revelation to modern news I immediately think of tanks-are-armored-scorpions sorts of claims.

    Rev 18 certainly does apply, but it’s been many, many, MANY years since I’ve heard it applied well. If you do preach on it and there’s a recording, let us all know. You’ve got at least one downloader here!

  6. I catch your irony, Charley. But on the other hand, I believe I live in Babylon and I figure I have nothing but Jesus. That doesn’t scare me, but it makes me really, really sad that not everyone sees it coming.

  7. Excellent connection Michael! I appreciate your insight and the restraint it must have taken to simply write out the passage and allow it to speak for itself. And speak, it did. I was absolutely astonished at the similarities between Rev 18 and our current economic landscape. Chilling.

  8. I had many thoughts while reading Revelation 18, but “ROTFLMAO” was certainly not one of them.

    One was shock, the sort of shock Flannery O’Connor put at the end of her short stories that God uses as the action of His grace. I certainly hope that the U.S. of A. is not “Babylon, the great city.” But it probably could be.

    One was that your blog suddenly sounded a lot like the newsletters of David Wilkerson.

    I hope you are joking, but I fear that you are not.
    I furthermore hope I am not one who will cry out for the rocks to fall on us.

    I am someone who thinks he is trusting in Jesus, but your post is very sobering.

    God help us all.

  9. I’m not here the argue Revelation. I’m an amill, and I believe the Apocalypse is always describing now.

    If a person doesn’t believe that the US is Babylon and are economy isn’t being described here, I don’t think they will ever see the message of this book.

    Babylon is the spiritual/economic/cultural empire raised up against Jesus, and he will- sooner or later- bring it down as he will all the world’s economic/spiritual/consumeristic/idolatrous systems.

  10. There might be those that cry out, Irrelevant, Out of Context…wrong!!! As deep calls to deep, sit meditate, reflect and pray on the those words. From age to age the Spirit of God is timeless, his breath blowing like wind across the landscape of all history.Funny thing about the Truth, you can spin it any way you want…when it settles, it’s still the Truth.
    I’m reminded of these further words from Hebrews 12;
    When God spoke from Mt, Sinai His voice shook the earth, but know he makes another promise. Once again I will not only shake the earth, but also the heavens. This means that the things on earth will be shaken, so that only eternal things will be left.
    Maybe amidst the rubble, we search like we never have before…for The Kingdom.

  11. beautiful prophetic words that must reach into the present. thank you for the exclusive!

  12. NOTE: I am actively moderating this thread, so if your post doesn’t appear, don’t get upset.

  13. MS, sorry for any less than serious posts. The mis-teaching of Revelation is so pervasive that it is almost a knee-jerk reaction to think that someone serious is poking fun at it when referencing the book.

    By quoting this, however, and not sensationalizing or over-interpreting, you give us a great example of how we should be reading this book and trembling before God’s righteous judgment.

    I, for one, will not let the prophecy wackos steal the Book of Revelation from me.

  14. IMONK: You are very insightful! Seemingly, one of the greatest enemies of man is the materialism, luxury, status, fame, fortune, and downright “plush” existence we seem to demand. Never mind there are peoples around the world who sleep in cardboard boxes or on the ground. “As it was in the days of Noah” is upon us. Another clear sign is the open practice of homosexuality. When God sent the angel of destruction to Sodom and Gomorrah, the large number of homosexuals in the city arrived at Lot’s house and demanded that he turn the angel over to them. Lot offered his virgin daughters but the men said, “we want to KNOW him.” As the men pushed against the door to attack the angel, the angel smote them with blindness. We live in incredible times when evil is called good and good is called evil. Mystery Babylon in Revelations clearly shows how dangerous our path is when we desire and follow the lure of materialism. Only what’s done for Christ will last. We still have to pass through the flaming swords to get back into Eden…..so to speak. Only what’s done for Christ will survive the flames. Thank you for the reminder that all temporal things will be destroyed. We are in the ten-toes time of the image of a man in Daniel. We are even nearer the end of the iron and close to the miry clay portion (final government/rule of the antichrist). God said he would put it in the hearts of the ten kings to give their authority over to the antichrist. God will bring us to that time. He has been clear on wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, famine, and so forth. We are seeing things now that are unprecedented. And it will get worse!! Economically, systems will fail in order to bring us to the time of the man of sin. I’m just going with the flow. I am in the world but not of the world. I don’t fear any of the things ahead. I have peace that passes understanding. I celebrate with others who love His appearing…..the nearness of eternity and a new heaven and a new earth (one without ugly power lines). In a vision once, my Heavenly Father spoke to me concerning Heaven…and said to me, “Would you believe the children watch the children?” Don’t we all look forward to a world where there is no harm….no danger…no evil to confront our children.

    God bless!

  15. I laughed out loud myself at the “teaser paragraphs,” but then I looked at the labels. Then I read more.

    I totally agree. I’ve got a lot of blank stares and silence when I say this could be talking about Capitalism. Most of the people I hang with (A/G) would rather think it’s Rome.

    I think it has roots in the same thing you discussed in “The ‘Real’ Prosperity Gospel.

    It is extremely sobering.

  16. Headless Unicorn Guy says

    I guess I’m too surrounded by dispy, Left Behind stuff. As soon as I hear talk of an application of Revelation to modern news I immediately think of tanks-are-armored-scorpions sorts of claims. — WebMonk

    No, they’re actually “helicopter gunships armed with chemical weapons and piloted by long-haired bearded hippies”. (Hal Lindsay, circa 1975)

    Or the following scene from one of the sequels to Thief in the Night, regarding the same plague of Revelation:

    1) Characters hiding out in a cabin in the woods sometime during the (low-budget) Great Tribulation.
    2) Something knocks at the door. One of the characters opens it to see who’s there.
    3) Giant Rubber Scorpion Stinger extends SLOWLY from offstage through the door, pops the guy in the chest while he just stands there.
    4) Guy goes down like Todd Bentley just kicked him one in the crotch at Lakeland, screaming.
    5) Giant Rubber Scorpion Stinger slowly withdraws through the doorway, somehow closing the door after itself.
    6) Cut to stock footage of horses’ hooves at full gallop, with voice-over telling us how what we just saw fulfills such-and-such verse of Revelation.

  17. Michael, a hearty “amen!” to your take on the Revelation.

  18. Okay, THIS time you’re being ironic, right?

  19. Like I said, I’m Amil, and I have no problem seeing what John is talking about in our economic idolatry.

    I haven’t read a dispy/literal interp of Rev in decades.

    Michael Wilcock, The Message of Revelation (BST) is the best book I know of. The downfall of this world’s corrupt economies is plainly the focus of this lament. It’s nothing to celebrate or dance about. It’s just a fact that like every other tower of Babel we build, they all will come down.

  20. Scott Miller says

    >>I’m an amill, and I believe the Apocalypse is always describing now.

    Isn’t amillinealism the belief that the prophecies in Rev have passed and we are currently in the millineum?
    That was the take I got from listening to Riddlebarger talk about amill on the White Horse Inn last week.

  21. I too am a-mill. I have often pondered this chapter and wondered about the connection to the United States. As another reader has pointed out, the “who” is not nearly as important as the “what”. Though I steadfastly maintain that the Pope sits in the office of _the_ Antichrist, I believe that anyone who limits Babylon to Rome has blinded themselves. In this I break with many of my fellow Lutherans, who are too likely to make every prophecy purely spiritual, with no down-to-earth application beyond that of “false doctrine” in general. The description of Babylon here can quite easily apply to Jerusalem, to Rome, to America, to England, to any nation or institution which lifts itself up against God, His Annoited Jesus Christ, and His Church. One could well consider Rev. 18 to be an expansion of Psalm 2.

    It is impossible to separate the spiritual from the flesh-and-blood reality which is described in Rev. 18. The pure pursuit of wealth and power is, without exception, intricately tied to the persecution of the Church, both bodily and spiritually. Any nation who lifts itself up, as the USA has done, and preens like a queen, boasting in the strength and staying power of the nation, all the while indulging in every form of ungodliness in pursuit of mammon, persecuting the saints, supporting regimes that quite literally have the blood of the saints upon their hands, playing Baalam to the people of God, has fallen under this curse without a shred of doubt.

  22. NAILED it! I had the very same thought. I also have thought of and shared the passages in Haggai and Hebrews about God shaking the heavens and the earth in order that those things which cannot be shaken (the Kingdom) will remain. One of the things we need to pray is that “Babylon” will be shaken off the value systems of the Church.

  23. I guess this hit to the economy means Jesus is comin’ real soon. So we better send more money in to the preacher with the biggest hair, whose wife wears the most makeup, who hates gays and Catholics the most, whose books are selling so well, who …

    Thanks Michael for being the first to biblically weigh in on this spiritual issue.

  24. In my understanding of amil, we are set free from the chronological tyranny, and are able to see all of Rev in all of history, including millennium, tribulation, Babylon, etc.

  25. I’m new to the armchair theologian stuff, so I guess I’m amill too…never thought about it. But this is an excellent exegesis(is that the correct word) of these verses. These verses are loaded the vices of mass consumption as well as with geneous usage of sexual imagery and we are to stop sleeping with the enemy people!!! If I may be so bold Michael, I think what John is describing here is Coitus Interuptus. This isn’t about safe sex…it’s about complete abstinence!! Thank you iMonk for the courage to bring this understanding to LIGHT!

    Moderate with a heavy hand if you feel you need to!

  26. I guess this hit to the economy means Jesus is comin’ real soon. So we better send more money in to the preacher with the longest hair.

    JM, Jesus is comin’ real soon. I know you jest concerning national ministries who equate money with salvation. But look at the image in Daniel. Concerning worldly governments, we are in the toes. It ‘don’t get closer than that.’ Thessalonians reminds that He will come as a thief in the night to those in darkness. But the children of the day will not be taken by surprise because the signs of His appearing are clear. If we believe history concerning rule and downfall actual Babylon, Medio/Persia, Greece, and Rome….why would we not expect the “miry clay” government to be destroyed by the “stone cut out without hands”? As a world, we are at the same place where Noah was just before the flood and where Lot was just before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    During my eighteen years of teaching severely disabled students….all of whom were also mentally challenged, the best teaching practice remains the ‘concrete’ method. Our Heavenly Father knows we are limited in knowledge and understanding. All throughout history, He has taught us with the concrete method….in that He has shown us, by way of history itself, that there is an ‘end’ to evil. The mere fact that He placed our existence between a beginning and an ending proves there is an ‘end.’ Eternity is outside these boundaries.

    I have come to the time in my life that I fully know the realities of what is important to our King. My husband and I are preparing to downsize to a small home on a small piece of property…one we already own. I have a very hard time these days keeping my housework done….it seems that ‘polishing the castle’ is a waste of precious time. I much prefer being with the needy and the desperate…such as female inmates in our county jail, and those in area nursing homes and assisted living facilities. We can’t know the day nor the hour….only God knows when the last prayer of repentance will come before Him. But we are to know the generation. Only two prophesied events are yet to take place. One, rule of the Antichrist; two, the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom to all nations. The rulers of the nation of Israel has, to this day, never ‘heard’ the Gospel of the Kingdom and won’t ‘hear’ until the two witnesses, seemingly Moses and Elias, preach to those rulers. During their ‘testimonies’ the blinded eyes will open, the deaf ears will hear, and they will recognize Elias and concede that Jesus indeed was and is the awaited Messiah. The ‘remnant’ will give glory to God. According to Matthew 24…”then the end will come.”

    Imonk and all of you who have commented, are clearing very intelligent men and women. I enjoy all of your comments and see elements of truth in all you say.

    Imonk, thank you for explaining ‘amil.’ You are right in that all warnings concerning good and evil are for all times. I experience tribulation on some level daily and I fight Armageddon on some level daily. Armageddon is personal for us in the here and now, as well as also being the ultimate destruction of Satan and his armies. Our entire existence is spiritual warfare. We will win because He fights Satan for us. We will reign in the here and now as ‘Kingdom’ members….and in the world to come.

    Remember, before God we all are mentally challenged. In His love and in His mercy, He has not made the Plan anything but simple. Satan, too, is very open in his plan…kill, steal, destroy. “God came that we might have life..and that abundantly.”

    Thanks to all for enduring my comments. I am not as oratorically skilled as the rest of you.

  27. If you throw a ball in the air, when it falls back to the ground is that the judgement of God?

    If you lick a frozen flag pole and your tongue gets stuck, is that the wrath of God?

    When a hurricane that has been expected for 100 years finally hits, is that the justice of God?

    If you believe that the financial problems are the wrath of God, to be consistent, you HAVE to believe these other things as well.

    There are certain laws that govern the world: what goes up must come down, moisture freezes at a certain temperature, E=MC2 etc. To ascribe God’s Hand to every force of nature is similar to claiming that there is no gravity, God just holds us all here.For various reasons America had been violating several basic laws of economics and now the other shoe is dropping.You reap what you sow.

    Most people, mocked Pat Robertson’s assertion that Katrina was the wrath of God on sinful New Orleans. I bet most folks here mocked him for that, as did most of the nation. Yet, here we are saying the same thing now. It seems like the same mindset that claims war casualties are God’s judgement for America’s “love of homosexuals”.

    It just seems to me like the kid who didn’t get picked to play baseball taking joy in seeing the game rained out.

    In the Bible, when the judgement of God comes, EVERYONE knows it for what it is, even those who don’t normally care. Or so it seems. When the judgement falls on America it will not be through easily predictable, naturally occuring cycles. It will be dramatic and will be seen for what it is by both the righteous, who will meet it with greif for the hurt, not self-righteous glee, and the unjust.

    DD

  28. Great post Michael! Upon hearing the news last week, my first reaction was “fallen, fallen” as well. Every system that exalts itself over and against God’s authority, whether from the left or the right is condemned. When it comes to idolatry, scripture is always speaking to us in the present tense.

  29. I preached on the Lord’s Prayer (in Matthew) on Sunday. Because I’m dealing with the political implications of the prayer the OT reading was on Jubilee. I select all my passages for the year in July so this one left me speechless given the circumstances we’re currently faced with.

    Even better, the guy who read the passage grasped the connection – he said he kept thinking, “Wall Street, Wall Street, Wall Street” as he read it. Jesus’ world was not capitalist (the theory hadn’t been invented yet, after all) – but it’s interesting to see how the manipulation of debt is very much the way that those in power grasp on to power.

  30. It is amazing how much of an idol we have made out of this country and capitalism. The bible is inerrant until it conflicts with consumerism or patriotism. We’re willing to question sex on TV or homosexuality, just don’t ask about what the bible says about the shinny new 3-series BMW in my driveway or launching a pre-emptive strike on Iran.

  31. Headless Unicorn Guy says

    I can see it now – Left Behind is going to revamp their predictions with the Fed being the Great Whore! — WebMonk

    Not “Hattie the Hottie”, that airline stew who used to get ogled by LaHaye’s author self-insert?

    Bernanke is the Antichrist! No! Paulson is! … Err, maybe Bush is the dragon. No wait, Obama is the dragon! Yeah that’s it! Obama is the beast… — WebMonk

    Not “A Young Robert Redford from Romania” who (like The Obama) can speak for two hours and say absolutely nothing yet throw all who hear into orgasm and worship?

    IMonk:

    Whenever I have heard your original posting used in reference to contemporary America, it has ALWAYS been in the context of Nuclear War, delivered with lip-smacking glee by that sub-type of Hal Lindsay’s disciples, the “Christians For Nuclear War”.

    I don’t know where you were coming from with it, but that is my automatic first-recognition reaction. (“Jesus Willies”, as Gagdad Bob put it.)

  32. Christopher Lake says

    Michael,

    I can see this passage applying to America in many ways. Are you saying that you think it applies to *only* America though? I think that these truths could be said of much of the Western world, and even perhaps some of the more prosperous countries in the East. Is it possible that “Babylon” is more of a greed-driven, immediate-gratification-worshiping *mindset* that permeates many countries (and individual hearts in *all* countries), and therefore, is not necessarily restricted to one geographical place?

  33. Christopher Lake: As I said earlier, as an amil, I believe all these things in Revelation can be found universally in all history and culture. IDing these varius monsters and characters as only one nation and time is a dispensational game I don’t play.

    Read Wilcock, The Message of Revelation.

  34. Every problem in our country is seen as a political problem with a political solution. Even Christians on both the right and left seem to believe this. Both parties, and both candidates for president, blame our financial woes on “greed” (well, Obama blames Bush too…everything is Bush’s fault, apparently). Rather, the case can be made that the root of every problem facing our nation (and the world) is spiritual, not political. Greed was judged and crucified on a cross almost 2000 years ago, and the solution to greed rose from the grave 3 days later.

  35. DaveD (24 Sep @ 10:10 am) – God does just hold us all here; He does it through a little invention of His called gravity.

    Michael (iMonk) – how can you be amil and Southern Baptist at the same time? I am confused by your statement. Southern Baptists have been pre-mil, pre-trib for a long, long time, way before the conservative/moderate wars of a decade or two ago. The only amil Baptist I’ve ever met was a Missionary Baptist, who would speak with open disdain about any “millenial reign.” Not at all like my SBC friends.

  36. Bob: Fortunately the SBC is confessionally neutral on all things eschatological, and a lot of SBC academics are non dispy. Herschell Hobbs, who was “Mr” Southern Baptist for so many years, was Amil.

  37. Christopher Lake says

    Bob,

    At my former “in friendly cooperation with the SBC” church, Capitol Hill Baptist, in D.C., there were more than a few Amils. It may have even been the predominant eschatological view among the members. While not officially endorsed by the elders, it certainly seemed more widely embraced in the congregation than pre-millennial dispensationalism. Some of the books for sale at the church bookstall were Amil, I believe. Then again, we were Reformed Baptists and generally Covenant Theology-leaning, and not a “LaHayesque” church, theologically speaking.

  38. Headless Unicorn Guy says

    Every problem in our country is seen as a political problem with a political solution. Even Christians on both the right and left seem to believe this. Both parties, and both candidates for president, blame our financial woes on “greed” (well, Obama blames Bush too…everything is Bush’s fault, apparently). Rather, the case can be made that the root of every problem facing our nation (and the world) is spiritual, not political. — Greg A

    Because politics has become a religion, and I don’t mean the top-down route taken by the USSR and its descendants took. For example, the current American election mania follows what can only be described as a Pre-Mil script:

    First, there’s been a general end-of-the-world Zeitgeist growing in America, probably from the time of the Cold War and Cuban Missile Crisis, but which has only recently (sometime between the first Earth Day and Y2K) achieved critical mass. This Zeitgeist expresses itself in various forms, from Left Behind PMDs to dystopian science fiction to Global Warming Predictions…

    Second, since Indecision 2000 there’s been a lot of Bush Derangement Syndrome going around, mythologizing President George W Bush as some Ultimate Evil Overlord… preached with all the zeal of a runaway Conspiracy Theory.

    Effectively, GWB has been cast in the role of The Antichrist and his eight years in the White House as The Great Tribulation.

    (You can only take such a dystopian view of the world for so long before you either go suicidal or nihilistic. You start looking for any sort of Messiah figure to Save you from the runaway dystopia. Such “Messiah Politics” cycles through American elections every 16-24 years, and we’re about due for another peak of the cycle.)

    Enter from obscurity one Barack Obama, charismatic Chicago politician. After seven years of Great Tribulation under Antichrist Bush, Obama has now been cast as the Coming Christ figure to cast Bush the Beast and all his works into the Lake of Fire and usher in the Millenial Kingdom.

    That’s the dynamic I’m seeing in this election cycle.

  39. Hey, DaveD,

    “When the judgement falls on America it will not be through easily predictable, naturally occuring cycles. It will be dramatic and will be seen for what it is by both the righteous, who will meet it with greif for the hurt, not self-righteous glee, and the unjust.”

    That’s quite a paragraph. I don’t see a lot of “self-righteous glee” here, though. It just gives us pause to think. It’s self-examination so we don’t get so enamored of money that we lose our souls.

    “easily predictable, naturally occurring cycles” It would have been good of you to clue in Paulson and Bernanke a little earlier. 🙂

    “When the judgement falls on America” Is there something else you’re holding out on us? (I personally think it will be more of an “ism” or multiple “isms” that will generally be broader than just America)

    Gravity, Temperature, Storms/Weather, God made, God controls.

    Wall Street, Fannie & Freddie, AIG, etc. Humans made, thinking they control it. They’re wrong, we’re wrong.

    I don’t really think like you do that they are that similar. (but I could just be an idiot)

    But, I think the point of the original post is just to get us to examine things, mainly our affections. I don’t read from iMonks general tone that he takes that literal of a view that it is absolutely, without a doubt, God’s Wrath, but it is eerily similar metaphorically. (Of course I’ve only started visiting in the last 3 months or so, and I really don’t know the man, and probably shouldn’t make the statement like that, but it’s how I see it, which is eerily similar to how you could write that paragraph that got me going on like this. I could hardly work all day, thinking about it 🙂

    Where your treasure is, there will your heart be, also.

    This is fun!

    Thanks iMonk!

  40. MONKS NOTE: I am actively moderating this thread, so if your post doesn’t appear, don’t get upset.

    Something to add to monks post

    REVELATION 11
    18 And the nations were wroth and thy wrath came and the time of the dead to be judged and the time to give their reward to thy servants the prophets and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name the small and the great (((and to destroy them that destroy the earth.)))

    PSALM 2
    1 Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate a vain thing?
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against Jehovah, and against his anointed, saying,
    3 Let us break their bonds asunder, And cast away their cords from us.
    4 He that sitteth in the heavens will laugh: The Lord will have them in derision.
    5 Then will he speak unto them in his wrath, And vex them in his sore displeasure:
    6 Yet I have set my king Upon my holy hill of Zion.
    7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee.
    8 Ask of me, and I will give thee the nations for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
    10 Now therefore be wise, O ye kings: Be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, For his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all they that take refuge in him.

  41. Americas golden calf

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/76046205@N00/119747318/

    JAMES 5
    1 Come now, ye rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you.
    2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
    3 Your gold and your silver are rusted; and their rust shall be for a testimony against you, and shall eat your flesh as fire. Ye have laid up your treasure in the last days.
    4 Behold, the hire of the laborers who mowed your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth out: and the cries of them that reaped have entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
    5 Ye have lived delicately on the earth, and taken your pleasure; ye have nourished your hearts in a day of slaughter.
    6 Ye have condemned, ye have killed the righteous one; he doth not resist you.

  42. Optimism is only the facade of a world without hope that is trying to hide from its own despair with this deceptive sham. This is the only explanation for the immoderate and irrational anxiety, this traumatic and violent fear that breaks out when some setback or accident in technological or economic development casts doubt on the dogma of progress. -Benedict 16

  43. Keith,

    “That’s quite a paragraph. I don’t see a lot of “self-righteous glee” here, though. It just gives us pause to think. It’s self-examination so we don’t get so enamored of money that we lose our souls.”

    That may have been Michael’s point. I am sceptical of that since we have seen him rail against people who own SUV’s as being unChristian. He denied that he was making that point but there were commentors who noted that he never said “They can drive what they want” with out following it up with “but there’s better things to do with their money. And caucazhin’s posts don’t drip with the feeling of watching your parents’ favorite child get reamed for something?

    “easily predictable, naturally occurring cycles” It would have been good of you to clue in Paulson and Bernanke a little earlier. :-)”

    I’m not some genius here. There have been all sorts of people pointing to this problem including Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, and even John McCain to a lesser extent. Bubbles burst. The Tulip Bubble, the Tech Bubble, now the Housing Bubble. It’s as natural a cycle as planting and reaping.

    ““When the judgement falls on America” Is there something else you’re holding out on us? (I personally think it will be more of an “ism” or multiple “isms” that will generally be broader than just America)”

    I think America is ripe for judgement. I think every country on the planet is ripe for judgement. I think we in America have been blessed with resources that no other country has had. We used to use it for ourselves but we also used it to help others and send out missionaries all around the world. We have now reached the point where poor African countries are sending missionaries here. We still, as individuals, out give virtually every country in the world. I believe that, and the prayers of true believers, is the only reason judgement has not fallen.

    “Gravity, Temperature, Storms/Weather, God made, God controls.

    Wall Street, Fannie & Freddie, AIG, etc. Humans made, thinking they control it. They’re wrong, we’re wrong.

    I don’t really think like you do that they are that similar. (but I could just be an idiot)”

    No, you are not an idiot. All of the things mentioned follow very clear, immutable laws. Economics is really no different than physics. In both cases you can create a hypothesis, do actions to test it, and confirm or exclude it. The biggest difference is you can test a lot of physics in a few minutes; economics takes decades.

    I also believe that these laws were put into place by God at the creation but he does not “control” them. He does not micro-manage the universe and these laws do not require God’s active participation to work. He CAN control them. He has the ability to step in and ignore them but this is not the usual way of things.

    The question is, are the sins of Wall Street greater than the sins of Main Street? Does the fact that most of the people involved are rich make it more worthy of judgement than the factory worker down the street who won’t give a dollar to a homeless guy he tries to avoid on his way to the ballgame?

    1 There were some present at that very time who told him (Jesus) about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? 3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? 5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

    Luke 13:1-5 (ESV)

    DD

  44. I’m not here the argue Revelation. I’m an amill, and I believe the Apocalypse is always describing now.

    WOW- and ditto!

    I followed a link here from Intellectuelle.
    I like your blog 🙂
    You have a new subscriber

    (Do you have any thoughts about the Beast and the Harlot? I wonder if it describes the whole gender warfare thing? YIKES!)

  45. Michael,

    I have thought that America was, and is, Babylon for some time now. And I do not understand why more churches are not speaking out.

    Our sins have reached heaven. As the prophet Daniel revealed to Belshazzar – God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. (Daniel 5.26, 27)

    Right now, this country is being weighed in heaven. God has decided to take a look at the books, and we are coming up short.

    The end has come. The party is over. And it is time to sober up and prepare for some very serious times ahead.

  46. I’m millennial in outlook, but 99.44% of the folks who look at prophecy forget one very important fact. Matt. 24:34-37 Tell us that we can not know the time line.
    * 34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass , till all these things be fulfilled .

    * 35. Heaven and earth shall pass away , but my words shall not pass away .

    * 36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    * 37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be .

    * 38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking , marrying and giving in marriage , until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39. And knew not until the flood came , and took them all away ; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    I find it interesting that a number of people over the years have claimed some date or other in their preaching or their writing, and as far as I know none of them have gotten it right yet.

  47. iMonk,
    Thats a cool feature. Linking to a translation!!! I just wish that I hadn’t dumb thumbed the citation and truncated it at v37 guess it is a good thing that I pasted in 38 and 39.

  48. Interesting link a friend sent me on Prosperity theology and the financial crisis.

    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1847053,00.html?cnn=yes