December 2, 2020

The IM Saturday Monks Brunch: November 7, 2020

The IM Saturday Monks Brunch: November 7, 2020

The Democrats’ fantasy…

The Democrats’ reality…

Trump’s fantasy…

Trump’s reality…


  1. today feels like we are the end of a very long siege

    ‘in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing’

    • Pellicano Solitudinis says

      “Other evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.”

        • Yeah, the next one will be more like Moscow Mitch McConnell, only younger than either Moscow Mitch or Trump. Then — watch out.

          • Burro (Mule) says

            I was reading a story about how McConnell and Biden are shower stall buddies from a combined near-century in the Senate.
            That may work to the country’s advantage

            • Nah, I think the Grim Reaper is gonna be all cold shoulder to a President Biden.

            • Let us hope.

            • Our system poops out Bidens and McConnells with vigor. These folks will not willingly undermine a system that privileges them. Trump would tear it all down on a whim without a thought as to what would replace it.

            • Biden is a statesman, whereas Trump is not. Biden knows how to reach across the aisle, whereas Trump hasn’t a clue and actually prefers not to as he thinks it’s a weakness.

              Those two things alone offer hope.

              • Hope those of you with a more sanguine perspective about the future relationship of Democrats and Republicans are right.

                • thatotherjean says

                  From his speech tonight, future hostility between Democrats and Republicans won’t be because Joe Biden failed to make overtures to people who didn’t vote for him, and refused to govern as president of all Americans. He said that he intended to govern for the benefit of everybody, loud and clear. I hope he succeeds.

                  • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                    The two months of Scorched Earth DC has already begun.

                    The Trump is a Vengeful God.

        • I’m afraid the biggest take-away is that the Trump-followers seem to outnumber all the other demographics in the GOP, which means that the only viable Republican strategy in the future will be to pander to them. I heard an interview last night with one of the Lincoln Project leaders, and he sounded rather hopeless and shaken when they asked him if he thought there was any future for people like him in the GOP. There will be wilderness times ahead for any Republicans who hoped to be able to see themselves as the party of moral values.

          • This is maybe where the Democratic Party needs to expand its tent to include traditionalist Republicans.

            • I suspect Biden will make some sort of attempt at this. But the war for control of the Republican party in the next few years will be a sight to see.

              • And Biden will have to resist those on the further Left flank of the Democratic Party who will want to treat any Republican who did not visibly oppose Trump as a war criminal not to be compromised with or tolerated.

                • Some of those on the left have already started making a Trump accountability project, making a list of those who helped elect him, worked for him, and financially supported him.

                  • Yes, and it’s worrisome, but it is not the result of government action. It’s a private organization that will use the power of boycott. There’s no way to avoid this happening without setting aside the power of individuals and organizations to express their political preferences through the way they spend their money.

                • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                  Biden will have to resist those on the further Left flank of the Democratic Party who will want to treat any Republican who did not visibly oppose Trump as a war criminal not to be compromised with or tolerated.

                  Welcome to Deustchland 1932.
                  Or Yugoslavia 1990.

              • I’m a lifelong Democrat and pretty leftward-leaning, but I *really* hope Biden adds a few moderate Republicans to his cabinet or other key positions in his administration. That would go a long way toward signalling the country that working across the aisle can still be possible.

                • The problem is, those moderate Republicans represent nobody but themselves. The Republican base is still overwhelminigly Trumpian, Andi don’t think they’re interested in bipartisanship.

                  • That’s what I fear. And Mitch McConnell knows this.

                    • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                      i.e. “HAIL TRUMP!!! HAIL VICTORY!!!”

                      And just like Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda, the losers in the last go-round sharpen their Long Knives for the next. Sharpening, sharpening, sharrpening, living in a fantasy of what they will do with them wihen THEY win. Rwanda’s been going through this on a two-generation cycle for some time.

                  • It’s indisputable that the Republican party is over 50% Trumpian, but it’s certainly not 100%. And, there are a number of Republican politicians who at least want to be able to see themselves as people of character and morality, even if they have blind spots where they fall short of that ideal.

                    And, finding those people in the Republican party who *are* sane and moral and reaching out to them is a good idea not only because it can heal some of our divisions, but because it would rob the Trumpians of some of their power.

          • thatotherjean says

            I hope those who are shaken by the prevalence of Trump cultists in the GOP can form the nucleus of a more moderate political party, willing to work with Democrats for the good of the country. We need two political parties in this country, but we can’t do what needs to be done when one of them is the Cult of Trump. Those folks need to go back to the fringes of politics, once again, and let those who are capable of more than hate govern.

    • Is it going to end today?

      • Susan Dumbrell says

        No. You wish!

        • So do you!

        • The major networks just called PA, and the election, for Biden. It is not the end, or the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.

          • Now, the states must certify their election results, select their slate of electors — hopefully using only the criteria of the popular vote! — and the electors be faithful in voting in December. We won’t even mention what the Wild Card in the White House must or will do to make or thwart a peaceful transition of power; we have a ways to go before we get there.

            • So far, the news is good – a couple of Penn Republicans brought up the idea of sending their own electors overagainst the popular vote electors, and got shut down hard by state leadership.

              • thatotherjean says

                That is good news. Let’s hope all the states react that way.

              • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                Which actually happened on the state level in 19th Century Pennsylvania, i.e. The Buckshot War. Here’s how it was told to me (in an illustrated form from “Pennsylvania Profiles”):

                The 1838 elections went against the Abolitionist Anti-Masonic Party, so they printed up their OWN slate of Official Election Results for in the State Legislature – enough to flip the party balance in their favor. Come the day of “transition of power”, TWO sets of State Assemblymen showed up and The Fight Was On!

                After the three Abolitonist Anti-Masonic State Senators bedhind the scheme had to dive out a window to escape the lynch mob, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ended up with TWO State Legislatures who did not acknowledge each other. AND riots in and around the Capitol itself.

                Governor called for help from the Feds.
                Feds refused, said this was state-level, handle it there.
                Governor mobilizes state militia, no ammunition (the Feds had it) so they had to scrounge buckshot loads. Plus, only a handful of “partially sober” militiamen showed up to enforce the Governor’s Martial Law, so things died down over the next two weeks.


                • Folks who think that our politics is worse now than it’s ever been would do well to study the 19th century.

                  • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                    Especially 19th Century LOUISIANA Politics.
                    They always had their own way of doing things.

              • There is the Law and a recent ruling on the side of the state’s reaction, and which should prevent this from occurring this go-round.


                • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                  You know what would make a lot of sense (which is why it’ll never happen)?

                  Tweak the Electoral college so that two Electoral votes (Senate-equivalent) go to whoever won the state (just like today) but the rest of the votes split according to whoever won each Congressional District (House-equivalent). This tweaks it more in alignment with the popular vote but retains the extra Senate-equivalent votes for whoever carries the state.

                • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                  Trump’s Tweet is Law!
                  Q-Anon’s Q-drop is Law!
                  Not only Law but SCRIPTURE!

          • President Trump’s statement this afternoon, from his golf course in Virginia:

            We all know why Joe Biden is rushing to falsely pose as the winner, and why his media allies are trying so hard to help him: they don’t want the truth to be exposed. The simple fact is this election is far from over. Joe Biden has not been certified as the winner of any states, let alone any of the highly contested states headed for mandatory recounts, or states where our campaign has valid and legitimate legal challenges that could determine the ultimate victor. In Pennsylvania, for example, our legal observers were not permitted meaningful access to watch the counting process. Legal votes decide who is president, not the news media.

            Beginning Monday, our campaign will start prosecuting our case in court to ensure election laws are fully upheld and the rightful winner is seated. The American People are entitled to an honest election: that means counting all legal ballots, and not counting any illegal ballots. This is the only way to ensure the public has full confidence in our election. It remains shocking that the Biden campaign refuses to agree with this basic principle and wants ballots counted even if they are fraudulent, manufactured, or cast by ineligible or deceased voters. Only a party engaged in wrongdoing would unlawfully keep observers out of the count room – and then fight in court to block their access.

            So what is Biden hiding? I will not rest until the American People have the honest vote count they deserve and that Democracy demands.

            • Headless Unicorn Guy says

              Which is now the latest chapter in the Book of Trump, Inerrant SCRIPTURE for all the Patriot Churches.

            • So far, during the vote counting, his legal team has almost completely struck out in court. There was a dramatic order from Alito to segregate ballots that had already been segregated by PA election officials, which had zero effect on the outcome of the count. All they can do is go over the same ground this week, but the count is in; unless they have substantial evidence of widespread fraud in multiple states that they can present to the courts, they will go nowhere with their efforts. But they will whip up the base, and let’s pray that doesn’t lead to violence.

              • thatotherjean says

                The only case they seem to have won so far allowed Republican monitors to stand six feet away from the actual vote counters, instead of ten feet, the better to check for nefarious doings–of which there have been none. No effect on the vote count at all.

                • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                  But DEMOCRAT VOTE FRAUD (SO THEY CAN TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS!!!!!) is now Inerrant Dogma. I just got lectured about it at length (regarding some irregularities in MIchigan) this morning.

            • Imagine all the books that will come out of the Trump administration. Imagine all the wild shenanigans we haven’t even heard about yet.

            • It’s obvious that Trump didn’t write this. It almost sounds rational – no name calling, no capital letters, no seething vitriol and contempt for anyone and everyone who doesn’t agree 100% with him..

              • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                It doesn’t read like a Christian Culture War Sermon/Tract (which includes all the tropes you listed).

              • But there’s still the paranoid-sounding allegations of conspiracy on the other side…

  2. Susan Dumbrell says

    Thank you anonymous
    I just want to turn on the TV and not be assalted by Trump.
    I am so many thousand miles away from your election problems but they dominate my every waking moment.
    Trump will create instability in world politics until 20th January.
    Why does the rest of the world need to be anxious by his belligerent pronouncements.
    I was keenly interested in the results which could have been so easily obtained.
    Do us the rest of the free worlds give us a break and reorganize your electoral elections.
    You gave chosen to misdirect your US citizens with too many convoluted rules and regs.
    Give us the rest of the Democratic countries a chance to show you a better way of electing your leaders in all their capacities.
    Your current method of democratic government sucks.
    China and Russia are laughing behind their hands in glee at the mess which has been shown to us as your version of democracy.
    Watch and learn.
    Cast away your vision of your country .
    Look to the future and redevelop your commitment to your US.

    • Pellicano Solitudinis says

      When the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. What happens there affects us all. You’re not the only Australian who’s been glued to the telly, or the interwebz, for the last week.

      I do agree that the way the US runs its elections is pretty unimpressive. Federalism is not in and of itself to blame; Australia is also a federation and we seem to be able to manage, postal votes and all.

      • Susan Dumbrell says

        Thank you

      • This leopard won’t change its spots. Voting will always be hard as hell to do in this country, and getting a gun easy as fishin’.

        • The only thing harder in the US than voting is not going bankrupt from medical expenses.

          • Pellicano Solitudinis says

            The electoral system, the gun thing and the medical system are the three main reasons I’m glad to be Australian and not American.

        • Actually, I must admit Robert, I have never had trouble voting–which I’ve done in three states since 1972. But, I am Anglo and have always lived on the upper edge of the South.

          • I guess I wasn’t thinking about my personal experience about either voting or buying guns. Like you, I’m white and have lived in suburban areas my whole life with, so voting has never been anything but a minor inconvenience; and I’ve never even shot a gun.

            • Robert, two rites of passage in the US; 1. driver’s license, 2. learning to shoot.

              Voting is optional.

              • I never have even held a gun. And I’ve known folks who lived in NYC all their lives and never have had a driver’s license.

              • I was well into my 20s before I got my license, and I got it mostly because after 9/11 my learners permit stopped being accepted as a valid state ID at airports. 🙂

                And as for rites of passage – a person becomes an adult the day they choose to view themself as an adult and act accordingly. Ironically, a lot of the things people turn to to try to “prove” their adulthood (whether that’s guns or cars or sex or anything else) are really just proof that they don’t have that internal confidence in themselves and need an external prop to lean on.

      • Australian population; 25.5 M
        US population 331 M


        Given that the US has a population over 10x that of Australia, that mail in ballots constituted the greatest total number and percentage of votes cast in our history, and that despite in the past year the berserk cheeto head kid in the Oval Office doing everything possible to hamstring the Postal Service, and given that each state has it’s own laws and regulations as pertain to mail in balloting–I think our system has worked pretty damn well, thank you.

        However, I grant that the US could learn much from other countries. Perhaps with a Democrat administration and a return to competency many things will improve.

        I was in eastern Australia for a month about 10 yrs ago. Thoroughly enjoyed your country and countrymen. The nearly day long jet ride is another matter…

      • “When the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.”

        And, as my Canadian relatives say, “When the US sneezes we’re likely to catch pneumonia.”

    • “Your current method of democratic government sucks.”

      No argument from me. I’d much prefer a parliamentary system that encourages many parties that are forced to form coalitions and where a “no confidence” vote means a new election.

      I would also, at least, like to see the abolition of the Electoral College, a holdover from the pre-Civil War period–the EC an attempt to mollify slave holding states. The EC should have been abolished with Abolition.

      • My first preference will never happen.

        My second preference may happen.

        • You really think we could manage a constitutional amendment to repeal the Electoral College? I don’t see it happening, too many states benefit from keeping it.

          • Probably not in our life-time…

          • Our Founders distrusted the mob. They provided checks and balances not just within the government but without. A bulwark against mass confusion. After all we are a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

            • Your founders had lots of terrible, terrible ideas. Just ask black people and women. America needs to stop saying “Our founders did X” as an argument to do X.

              • +1 Donalbain.

              • But that feeds right back into the religious problem. Evangelicals have been fed a steady diet of “America is a Christian nation and the Founding Fathers were the geniuses behind it” agitprop for decades. There’s an entire mini-industry of books and conferences making bank on this notion.

      • We’ll never graduate from the Electoral College; we will always be perpetual students.

        • I hope you’re not right, but I like the way you said it.

          It’s kind of like Evangelicalism where its adherents never graduate from its tutelage and control.

      • Parliamentary systems sound great from where we’re at now. But they too have their flaws. Ask the French and Italians.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          They have DIFFERENT flaws, which to someone with a different system don’t look like flaws at all.

          I have said the same things about American health insurance vs French or British-style NHS. Yes, “Socialized Medicine” has its flaws, but right now they’re less messed up than our system.

          You know, we almost had Single-Payer NHS-style health insurance in the USA; back in the Sixties there was an across-the-aisle consensus for it that came real close to getting there but foundered because some of its advocates were pushing instead for a PERFECT system instead of one that had a REAL chance of being implemented. The realistic plan wasn’t PERFECT in Every Way, so a critical amount of advocates bailed on it in all Righteousness (much like a Chrisitanese Boycott) and the attempt failed.

        • Ask the French and Italians.

          Heck. Talk to the British. They’ll ask you to hold their beer while they talk about Brexit.

      • Burro (Mule) says

        Democracy is messy.

        Indian elections are notoriously so. Despite my distaste for the current Indian President, I admire the Indians for their resolve to keep it going.

        An acquaintance’s family is high-up in the BJP. He says the choice is between ‘caste-ist as hell, but relatively clean (BJP) or egalitarian but squalidly corrupt (Congress).

        They have the same issues we do; differing states with differing rules. Like I said, I admore them.

  3. quiet morning
    is never really
    quiet enough

  4. If only tRump had half as much class as Rowan Atkinson…

  5. Dan from Georgia says

    I never knew Rowan Atkinson could be so loquacious, considering Mr. Bean is so quiet. But then again, Mr. Bean speaks volumes with just a glance.

    • Mr. Bean is all most Americans know Mr. Atkinson for. If you want a real education on how loquacious (and sarcastic) he can be, watch Blackadder. I especially recommend the last series, set in the trenches of WWI.

      • Dan from Georgia says

        Thanks for the suggestion Eeyore…I have head of Blakadder.

        • +1.

          Atkinson is a comic genius. Mr. Bean is just one persona. The Black Adder series shows his talent at another level.

      • The trenches series, yes. Lots of wry Brit and gallows humor on display.

        • Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other’s deterrent. That way there could never be a war.

          Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn’t it, sir?

          Blackadder: Yes, that’s right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

          George: What was that, sir?

          Blackadder: IT WAS BOLLOCKS.

  6. Of course, this one is probably more thematically appropriate..

  7. Steve Newell says

    Let’s assume that Biden wins the election.

    I have f

    1) Will Trump concede the election to Biden?

    2) Will the Trump Regime work to make a smooth transition for the incoming Biden Administration?

    3) Will Trump show up for Biden’s inauguration?

    4) Will Trump try to pardon himself?

    What do you think?

    • 1) Not in a million years. His ego couldn’t take it.

      2) No, just a question of to what extent they trash the place on the way out.

      3) Really? Show up to his becoming the Ultimate Loser?

      4) if that’s what it takes to keep himself out of jail? Sure.

      • Trump could declassify enormous amounts of classified documents just to put an immense spoke in the wheel of Biden’s presidency.

    • 1) He’ll leave the White House, but never give a verbal or written concession acknowledgment.

      2) No

      3) No. But if he does, it will only be with the intention of stealing the show and making it about himself.

      4) Yes

    • thatotherjean says

      1. No. Fortunately, it’s not necessary.

      2. Certainly not. I wouldn’t put it past them to just pack up and leave, and let the new administration figure out what they were doing.

      3. I doubt it. He needs to get out of the country before Letitia James (NY AG) can catch him.

      4. I’m thinking maybe he’ll work a deal with Pence to pardon him, if Trump resigns and lets Pence be president for a month or so. But that’s only for Federal crimes. For State crimes, see #3, above.

    • This a terrible thing to say, but I hope Trump, either in his remaining time as president or afterward, finds a way to throw Murdoch under the bus. Murdoch is worse than he is.

      • Murdoch, unlike Trump, is actually wealthy and actually a businessman. Murdoch has nothing to fear from Trump. Without him, Trump has no guidance and no audience.

        But yes, Murdoch is worse than Trump, the same way that a more skilled and ruthless con artist is worse than a clown on the street corner running three card Monte.

        • You’re right. Murdoch might even offer Trump a job if he will bow out of the presidency without causing too much trouble.

          • Trump is (pardon the pun) constitutionally incapable of not being Too Banana. No, Trump will set up his own network, so that he could be the star.

            • Top Banana.

            • I did said Murdoch would offer him a job, but not that Trump would take it.

            • thatotherjean says

              Before or after he gets out of prison? There are State Attorneys General pretty much waiting outside the White House walls for a chance to take Trump into custody.

              • I hope they have the good sense not to do it. Talk about creating further division and possible violence in this country. There are a lot of people who believe Hillary, Obama, Biden, Comey, etc. have gotten away with murder. On top of that they also now believe an election has been stolen. If you then add insult to injury by arresting the man they believed should be president you are asking for trouble. The best thing the media and the left can do with Trump is the thing they should have been doing since 2015; ignore him.

                • I actually agree with you here. And aside from the immediate or near term negative repercussions, it would set a bad precedent for reviving a humane political culture in this country.

                • His tax cheating along has cost the US Tax payer over $100 million. Maybe 10 times that. How much do we let slide?

                  And I’m fulling on the side of not arresting ex presidents due to the precedent it would set.

                  • If that is true, then he should have been brought up on charges long before 2016. Arresting him now could potentially cost the US tax payer way more than $100 million or even a billion dollars, as well as establish a precedent of arresting the losing party of an election. Even if you think it is right, it is not worth it. Personally I think Hillary Clinton did enough to warrant an arrest and trial, but I didn’t want it to happen because I could only see it become a game of payback.

                    • White collar crime has always been spottily prosecuted in this country. Bernie Madoff and Billy McFarland are all too rare exceptions.

                    • He has been fighting the tax issues for a long time. Getting elected basically put the fight on hold. But as things have come out it looks worse for him. And the news folks digging may have turned up details the IRS didn’t have.

                      But in multiple cases he has claimed to be completely out of loosing ventures and charitable deductions but it has since turned up that he was still involved. Which is where those huge tax bills come from. You can’t claim a deduction / lose if you don’t walk away. Claimed loses that are not allowed based on how he did it.

                      I’m not talking about arresting him. Just him paying the actual tax bills.

                    • He should be made to pay the tax bills, if he can, for certain.

    • Steve Newell says

      I hope that Don the Con will do and join One America where his followers in the Cult of the Donald will leave Faux News. There, he can attack Fraud News for being part of the “deep state”.

      Trump will want to be worshiped by his followers.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        (The Christians already have…)

  8. senecagriggs says

    Dear I-monkers. If Joe is elected, and I think he will be, your hope for the Age of Aquarius to arrive with Joe’s election will be stomped by realities.

    • senecagriggs says

      I’m trying to let you down gently. Prepare for reality.

    • Burro (Mule) says

      I doubt anybody here is expecting the Age of Aquarius, just the cancelling of a tiresome and tedious reality TV show.

    • Steve Newell says

      Biden has to clean up the mess that the Trump Regime has left behind.

      Like all things Trump, others must clean up the messes that he creates. Trump can only destroy things.

      Sadly, the Party of the Donald will to what ever it takes to destroy Biden since they don’t care about our nation.

      • Good insight. Trump is a destroyer. He has zero grace in him. His spirit is not a good one. And as the leader of our country for four years, he has created a nation more like him now than not. My only hope is that Biden’s spirit is closer to that of God’s, and that he begins bringing people back toward a spirit of dignity and grace.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          And to four out of five American Evangelicals, He Is LOOOOOORD, The REAL Second Coming of Christ.

          Like Turbo-Jesus of Left Behind (and other Christian Apocalyptic), He is a God of Wrath one temper tantrum away from burning the world to ashes and casting all except his Court Favorites/Base into Eternal Hell.

          Like Pious Piper’s God, His only reason for existence is Glorifying Himself. By Any Means Necessary.

          Always Sin-Sniffing for any hint of Disloyalty or Rebellion.

          No wonder Christians fought to be first in line to Take His Mark. They have been catechized with a God and Christ who acts just like a Cosmic Donald Trump, so when “the real thing” came along in 2016…

    • The age of Aquarius is well past and gone. Some peace and civility and competence in government is my desire.

  9. senecagriggs says

    The Fifth Dimension at their best.

    Sure, Joe fixed NOTHING in his first 45 years in Government but now … He’ll fix everything.

    • Have you read his actual history?

      It would disabuse you of two errors – that he has done nothing, and that he is a flaming socialist. Neither is true. In fact, he used to be very conservative socially.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        But that is The Party Line, MAGA Christian.
        And doubleplusbellyfeeling that Party Line is the latest Litmus Test of your Salvation.

    • It’s insulting to us to suggest that any of us think Joe Biden will fix even everything that Trump broke, never mind the preexisting mess. I expect that the Moscow Mitch Senate will prevent him fixing very much of what Trump has broken. Obstruction will be Mitch’s mission, and, skilled politician that he is in combination with the power he holds, he will succeed. The Grim Reaper, Supreme Leader Snoke.

      • Guys like Dan and Seneca are all about The Guy At The Top – if it’s a guy they like, he (almost always a ‘he’) can do no wrong – and if it’s a guy they don’t like, there’s nothing good to say about him. And they impute the same attitude that they have towards leadership to us.

        • Yeah, Seneca calls that guy “The Alpha Male”, and has no end of admiration for him. He even thinks Jesus was the Alpha and Omega of Alpha Males! LOL!!

          • The funny part is that the whole “Alpha Male” pack hierarchical concept has been pretty much abandoned by anthropologists and evolutionary biologists. It is way too simple-minded to describe the complexities of animal behavior much less that of Homo Sap.

            • But it is now part of manosphere metaphysics.

              • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                With every Real Manly Man trying to claw his way up to be the One Alpha Male At The Top.
                Power Struggle Without End, Amen.

                “I’M KING OF EVERYTHING I SEE!” — Yertle the Turle

            • thatotherjean says

              “Alpha male” behavior seems to be pretty much an artifact of the fact that the wolves that were being studied were captive wolves. I wonder how well that applies to people? Do people in similar situations, whether physical or mental, develop similar behaviors?

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            He even thinks Jesus was the Alpha and Omega of Alpha Males!

            i.e. a Cosmic Donald Trump! Or Cosmic Mark Driscoll! So Manly He Makes a Woman Out of Men!

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          Guys like Dan and Seneca are all about The Guy At The Top – if it’s a guy they like, he (almost always a ‘he’) can do no wrong

          Like Burro’s talking about the ukase of the Caesars and Tsars.
          Like Court Evangelicals laying on hands and Prophesying over Trump.
          Christians flock to Dictators who promise what they want like Harley Quinn to her Joker.

    • I’m not sure how many of us are expecting him to fix anything, All I want and expect is that we will get a spirit other than Donald Trump in office.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        Even “A cautious, caretaker administration” (Hunter Thompson’s description of Gerald Ford’s Presidency) would be an improvement over the four years of Reality Show Drama-Rama we’ve had to endure.

    • Ignorance, Sen.

  10. Steve Newell says

    Since the end of the voting on November 3, we have seen Biden and Trump act in very different ways.

    What one word would you use for each man.

    Biden: Presidential

    Trump: Unhinged

  11. senecagriggs says


    No more kids in cages
    Oh wait, that was Biden and Friends
    No more wars
    Oh wait, The Donald didn’t start any
    No more higher taxes
    Oh wait, DJT lowered your taxes.
    He brought back the Swamp
    Oh wait, he fought the swamp
    No more Quid Pro Quo
    Oh wait, that was Joe and Hunter
    No more concentration camps for his political enemies
    Oh wait, that didn’t actually happen
    Increased enemity with China
    Joe and Hunter will fix that – dryly
    He became President so he could get rich
    Oh wait, he never took a dime of what was rightfully his
    He turned over control of USA to Russia’s Putin
    Oh wait, he continued to blast Putin
    Trump was literally Hitler
    Oh wait, he did more for the Jews than anybody ever.
    But the pandemic?
    Joe’s gonna fix that? Hmm we’ll see.

    No more tweets
    Well you got me there

    • We’ll take the “no tweets” as a starting point and work from there. Unlike the Republican Party, there are folks among the Democrats who have a care to those issues – oh wait I forgot, they’re all godless socialist baby killers.

      Don’t you ever get tired of the “I’m always right and you’re all stupid and evil” shtick?

      • I only give Sen’s comments a very brief glance. It is same old-same old. Dan was fully supporting Trump the other day and I guess it is Sen’s turn today. Yawn!

      • Clay Crouch says

        It’s the price we pay for throwing DT out of office and it’s worth every worthless comment he makes.

    • You certainly are vindictive this morning.

    • >But the pandemic?
      Joe’s gonna fix that? Hmm we’ll see.

      So you’re not one of those who believe the pandemic will just disappear after Biden’s election? You’d better talk to dan.

    • Burro (Mule) says

      You’re not the only one with reservations about a Biden presidency.

      The “asylum seekers” will pour across a newly porous border About 4% of them will be in any genuine danger in their countries
      The H1-B program will fire up again as our newly empowered silicon satraps seek slave labor for their cyberpyramids.
      The Sardaukar will be deployed again, Heaven knows where. Probably Yemen or the Horn of Africa.

      At least #MeToo got thrown under the bus. #BLM will likely be next.

      • I wouldn’t bet on that. My wife follows rights activists closely. Trump was a wake up call for them. They know if they don’t keep up the pressure, everything they’ve worked for for decades is gone. They will no go gently under that good bus.

    • Steve Newell says

      It will take years to undo the damage by the Trump Regime.

      Everything at Trump touches die, including the US.

      Back in 2016, who knew that Trump would be source of “American carnage”.

      • There won’t be years to undo it. The Republican Senate will make sure of that.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          And in 2024, they will once more call for The Strong Man. And the Strong Man will come.

          “And there never was another election, of course.”
          — Robert Heinlein, talking about the Election of REVEREND Nehemiah Scudder to POTUS in 2012
          (the one period of his Future History which he never wanted to or did ever write)

      • Burro (Mule) says

        If Biden tacks hard to the right, he could do it. Even Sith McConnell would chortle at his beemish boy.
        The DNC showed us they were prepared to do that in March, then again in May.
        Their giant “up yours” to the Jacobin wing of the party warmed the cockles of my heart.

    • –> “No more tweets
      Well you got me there”

      You know what, if that’s the ONLY change we see, it’ll have been worth it. Trump’s biggest downfall was himself, and even his own supporters said how much they wished he would’ve just shut the eff up with his Tweetstorms.

    • –> “But the pandemic?
      Joe’s gonna fix that? Hmm we’ll see.”

      I don’t know of a single person who thinks Biden fixes the Pandemic, because it isn’t POLITICAL!!! I will tell you one thing for sure, though: it’s not gonna “just go away” after the election, like most Trump supporters have claimed it would.

  12. If this site hadn’t been around for the past four years, I’m not sure I would’ve survived. Just sayin’.

    Thanks to Chaplain Mike, Mike Bell, Mike the Geo, and Daniel Jepsen (and any guests I might’ve missed) — and also most of my like-minded posters — for bringing some sanity and a venue to vent during the Trump presidency.

  13. Regardless of the election outcome this country will remain divided, perhaps hopelessly so. Many supporters of the losing candidate are likely to consider the winning candidate to have been illegitimately elected, as has been the case for the last four years.

    It’s also an open question whether anything substantive will get done as it also appears we’re headed for another divided Congress. Then again, Americans seemingly prefer divided government. The same party has simultaneously controlled the White House and both houses of Congress only six out of the last forty years.

    The church will likely remain divided as well. Pro-Trump evangelicals and never-Trump evangelicals will continue to be at each other’s throats and hurling plenty of recriminations. A number of self-proclaimed “prophets” are presently wiping egg off their respective faces after predicting the president would be re-elected. And I suppose Mr. Trump could still pull out victory from the jaws of certain defeat as he did four years ago, but the clock seems to be ticking.

    One last thought: the shortest verse in the Bible is John 11:35: “Jesus wept.” I can’t help but wonder if He feels that way about us today.

    • Correction: The same party has been in control of both houses of Congress and the White House ten out of the last forty years. I forgot to add the first two years of the Obama administration and the first two years of the Trump administration to my calculations. Maybe I should use a calculator more often.

      • thatotherjean says

        We’ll have another crack at the Senate in 2022, so the last two years of the Biden administration may be more productive than the first two, in terms of things that Democrats would like to see changed. Or maybe some Republican Senators will see the light, now that Trump isn’t around ti intimidate them.

        • If you don’t get the Senate now in the run offs, I have doubts you will get it in two years. In fact, I expect the opposite, with Republicans gaining in the Senate and possible taking the House. Fair or not, when things go wrong people tend to blame the party in the White House. And quite frankly, I don’t expect a Biden administration to be good for the economy, and that is still the true number one issue for a lot of people.

          • thatotherjean says

            The best thing Biden can do for the economy is to get the COViD-19 virus under control in this country. He stands to do a lot better at that than Trump has, since he actually has plans and listens to experts. He has already said who his advisors will be, and they’re actual scientists. Trump and Atlas’s only solution–“herd immunity,” will kill an enormous number of people before–or if–it has any effect, and will take a very long time. In the meantime, the economy will still be terrible. I think, ultimately, Biden will be far better for the economy than Trump.

            • But Moscow Mitch will not help Biden with another Coronavirus stimulus/relief bill to mitigate the economic suffering from the pandemic. He’ll obstruct, and then put blame for that on the president and his Party, and that’s what the American populace will believe.

    • “Many supporters of the losing candidate are likely to consider the winning candidate to have been illegitimately elected, as has been the case for the last four years.”

      Well, there was no doubt on our side that Trump won the election. It was his character and lack of competence that were the problem.

      “It’s also an open question whether anything substantive will get done as it also appears we’re headed for another divided Congress.”

      No argument there.

      “The church will likely remain divided as well. Pro-Trump evangelicals and never-Trump evangelicals will continue to be at each other’s throats and hurling plenty of recriminations.”

      71%ish of evangelicals still chose to cast their votes for a sociopath and would-be autocrat. Don’t expect us to forget that fact, or to stop calling them out on it. The battle against Trump appears to be coming to an end. The battle against the second coming of the German Church is just getting warmed up. Because 2024 is coming. Again, see the Atlantic article I linked way above.

      • There was no doubt on your side that Trump won, but many felt that he won because of Russian interference, and thus was not legitimate.

        • Fake Facebook accounts isnt the same as tampering with voting machines. Nobody forces people to believe randos on FB. If the Russians can con people into thinking Trump was a great idea, the fault lies more with the people than the Russians. (And I say this as someone who has a VERY low opinion of Russians in general.)

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            Nobody forces people to believe randos on FB.

            Remember the Tide Pod Challenge?
            We had to resort to Social Media Influencers to tell people NOT TO EAT LAUNDRY DETERGENT!
            “BUT IT WAS ON FACEBOOK!”

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says

      A number of self-proclaimed “prophets” are presently wiping egg off their respective faces after predicting the president would be re-elected.

      Should have listened to the Bookies instead.
      Betting Pools actually had the most accurate predictions of the election.

      As for these Prophets(TM), they’ll just retrench like when their Date for the Rapture comes and goes. Again and Again and Again. The Righteous Can NEVER Admit They Were Wrong.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        THE most classy recovery from an End-of-the-World Date came from a European Psychic’s prediction many years ago:
        “Anyone can make a mistake — be glad I did!”

        Now can any of you imagine a Christian Rapture Ready type making as classy a recovery?
        Or even making a recovery at all?
        The usual Christianese “recovery” to a failed prediction is Double Down, Set Another Date, and SCREAM LOUDER!

  14. Dan from Georgia says

    CNN calls election for Biden.

    • So has the Washington Post, but such projections are as premature as President Trump’s claim of victory early Wednesday morning. I don’t think this is going to be over for a while, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Supreme Court ultimately settles this race as it did in 2000.

      • I doubt it. It’s not a question of “hanging chads” this time, but of supposed nationwide intentional rigging of the election involving thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands. Multiple states would have to be investigated and it would take a long time, probably months or even years. I don’t see it happening.

        • Dan from Georgia says

          Agreed. I don’t think the Supreme Court wants any part of this. Numerous lawsuits have already been dismissed on the basis of lack of evidence. But we all know the REAL evidence lies (pun in tended) in all the social media videos, memes photos, conspiracies, etc….I think its all a matter of “my guy can’t do wrong, and the other guy can’t do right”.

          • I think you are right that the courts want no part of this, but if poll watchers were denied access as alleged, and ballots aren’t allowed to be recounted with the appropriate watchers in place, how would you find evidence?

          • After last night’s order from Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito requiring Pennsylvania officials to segregate ballots received after 8:00 PM on Election Day, I’m not so sure they’re as unwilling as you say. I could be wrong, but I still don’t see the election as a done deal. Don’t be surprised if members of the media start asking the “prophets” in the next few days if they’ve got any extra towels as they might have to do some egg-wiping of their own.

            • Alito was showboating. PA Election officials had already segregated the late-coming ballots that his order pertained to, so it made no difference to the vote tally.

            • Dan from Georgia says

              I think either way this isn’t going to go away anytime soon. I know most of us wish we could move on, but in our society seems like we can’t let go and accept defeat graciously.

            • I’ve read that Trump does not have a great legal team representing him in this. I bet the good law firms and lawyers don’t want to touch this.

              • It’s not that a “good” law firm won’t take a bad case. But they will insist that they get paid.

                • He is notorious for not paying. But sometimes lawyers will take a high profile case for publicity, even if payment is in question.

                • thatotherjean says

                  There is that. And “good” law firms don’t generally want notorious clients with bad cases, even if they are President of the United States–especially if they’re not going to get paid for their work.

              • When your crack team of lawyers is led by Rudy “Renfield” Giuliani and Jay “Home School” Sekulow, how can you lose?

      • It’s going to be a while before it is over. I can only imagine the response if the courts do decide a bunch of ballots are illegitimate and give Trump the win. But I don’t expect that to happen.

        • The only “win” they’ve scored was when they asked the OA authorities to segregate ballots *that they were already segregating*. They’ve struck out everywhere else.

          Maybe they’re using Paula White’s “name it and claim it” theology as their legal strategy? 😛

          • The name it and claim it bs is like the Norman Vincent Peale Power of Positive Thinking bs that Trump grew up hearing in Peale’s church.

      • The metrics on this are pretty clear – Biden has enough of a lead in OA to avoid an automatic recount, and the ballots remaining are from heavily Democratic regions and groups. Is it *logically possible* that they could go Trump? Yes, but the odds against it are insurmountable. Georgia and Arizona could revert back to Trump and it wouldn’t matter – like Mike said yesterday, PA decided it.

  15. The sun is rising. Life is complex and there are still troubles ahead but a little light has shown. (Warning – run on sentence) Not because a Democrat won but because, I honestly don’t know how else to characterize it, an evil man bent on his own power agenda, in an extraordinarily robust way that eclipsed that of the average slimy politician, not America’s agenda at large, has been stopped.

    • That makes me happy, too – in the same way someone would be happy that a bullet just whizzed past their head, and missed. Yes, I’m happy to be alive, but there’s still someone out there shooting at us.

      • +1 to ChrisS, and +1 to Eeyore.

        I feel like there’s still a battle being waged, and somewhere close, but maybe it has missed my neighborhood. Is this what war is like: “Please, if there’s a battle, let it be three miles down the road!”

      • “There is nothing more exhilarating in life than being shot at–and missed.”

        Dispatch from Churchill in Cuba

        • But the alternative sucks.

          Tom, I just saw your email this morning. Don’t check my email much. In answer to your question, I woke up at that time from back and leg pain. I imagine you were in pain too, from your fall. Are you any better than last week?

          • Actually not much better. I have more trouble from broken ribs than I do from pelvic cracks. Earlier this morning propped up on my back I heard and felt several ribs left to dorsal crack and collapse. Almost couldn’t get out of bed because of the pain. Wife is sleeping in another room because she has a bad cold and doesn’t want to cough all over me. If I have to cough it is torture.

            Thanks for asking Robert. Sorry about your back and leg pain. Sounds like bulging disc. Been there and know it too well.

            It takes so much courage to grow old…

            • Tom, I’ll be praying for you, and contacting you via email. I’ll pray that God gives you whatever courage is necessary as we age, as well as that he will heal your injuries.

    • thatotherjean says

      Well said, ChrisS. We will have a great many problems remaining–but not that one.

  16. I’m relieved but not particularly hopeful, except that we might now have actual public health policy and personnel and testing enough to start to slow down the C-virus. An RNA strand is neither Democrat nor Republican; so many people forget that, or are willfully ignorant. But the USA is still an oligarchy that enacts policy overall more favorable to the lobbyists and special interests – of all kinds – than to the people of this country.

    However, I am ecstatic that we will not have a tweeting president. Yeah, DT will still tweet, but hopefully he will go off and do something like have a TV show that I don’t have to watch. Ever. Somebody I read on the interwebz this week wrote that he’s just a little boy who is looking for affirmation and love from people. I get that. Problematic is that sometimes such people leave chaos in their wake, which he has certainly done – he created his own very stinky swamp. He is all the more pitiable because of that.

    Presidents don’t make immigration laws. Congress has been kicking that can down the road for decades. It’s time they did something about it. I’m going to write my representative and senator and lean hard, for all the good that will do. Speaking of which, the Senate might squeak out of Republican control. There’s going to be a run-off in Georgia, and someone will have to replace Harris in California.


  17. David Greene says

    I had a dream last night. Usually I don’t remember my dreams and when I do, they are not to interesting. But last night! I dreamt there were a bunch of people milling around outside, hundreds of average people. Among them were a few well-dressed politicians, all in suits of various shades of blue, and all with red ties, some plain, others striped in different patterns. The suits were immaculate, well-tailored of the finest material and sharp as a tack. Each politician had the same lapel pin, but I could not make out the pattern. In contrast all the other people were in casual dress.

    But the politicians, each had a shiny porcelain toilet where their head should have been. The lid, when it was closed, made an ironic smile but usually it was not closed. The lid moved like lips and each was saying “Feed Me, Feed Me.” On occasion someone would raise on of the lids and put something of value in: a wad of cash, food, jewelry… or, whatever. When that happened, the politician would raise his arm and flush himself.

    I’m not sure what this all means but I’m pretty sure it is a lot more significant than some of the recent “prophecies” that have been recently released. Make of it what you will. 🙂

  18. covered bridge —
    red and orange leaves
    crinkle underfoot

  19. Tom Parker says

    Some will be in church today to experience the moaning and groaning of how God’s man did not get re-elected? Others like myself will just have to use my imagination.

    Myself and many others will ask the question till we die-Was it worth it Evangelicals?

    • senecagriggs says

      Tom, your team won but you hatred for the Evangelicals remains.

      • Don’t you and your kind say that it is an expression of love is to confront people with unpleasant truths?

        And another question – is there anything that would make you question your support for evangelicals? What would they have to do for you to lose faith in them?

        • Eeyore,

          it’s the interpretation of Scripture which Sen holds (that most Evangelicals share) that is the issue. Like most Christians, he’s convinced his interpretation of Scripture is correct. It’s too bad that he, like most Evangelicals these days, (and far too many other Christians as well), seem to have to make everything about politics in an attempt to prove that “the Bible speaks to every issue”.

          Christ will not judge us on the basis of our politics, nor will he judge us on the basis of our interpretation of Scripture <b<except insofar as the latter helps us do the things – as Christians in the Church, not as members of any political movement or party – for which we will be judged: the list in Matthew 25.


          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            Not “Interpretation” So-called, but PLAIN READING of SCRIPTURE!!!!!

          • We are not saved by what Jesus taught, and we are certainly not saved by what we understand Jesus to have taught. We are saved by Jesus himself, dead and risen. “Follow me” he says. It is the only word that finally matters.

            Robert Capon, end of chapt. 6, The Parables of Grace

  20. Tom Parker says

    Eyeore, wonder how many times in the last 4 years the word Trump was spoken in a church setting , compared to the name of Jesus?

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says

      You mean the four years of “Move Over, Rabbi from Nazareth! There’s a NEW Messiah and Savior in town, one who WILL Get Things Done!”

  21. senecagriggs says

    I-monk’s newsman: Anderson Cooper referring to the president of the United States as behaving like “an obese turtle on his back, flailing in the hot sun, realizing his time is over [who] just hasn’t accepted it.”

    The progressive, mature love fest. dryly

    Jesus shaped spirituality anyone?

    • Last time I checked Anderson Cooper didn’t claim to be a Christian. And Robert is right, you are turning into a real whiner.

    • Anderson Cooper is iMonk’s “newsman”?

      When did I miss the memo…?

    • IMO Anderson Cooper was generous with Tweetster.

    • I will say, if Cooper said that in his role as “newsman,” that’s pretty bad. If he said it in the role of “Op Ed,” however, then okay.

      There’s a big difference, and frankly we should demand that our news people keep biases and inflammatory language out of their news reporting.

  22. senecagriggs says

    Megyn Kelly
    Level 5:
    Replying to
    Then it’s delusional & out of touch. Republicans have been told for 4 years that they’re racist, sexist, xenophobic bigots if they support Trump & now suddenly it’s “let’s heal! Unite!” It’s not going to happen. He should check Twitter to see what D’s are saying re “lists” etc.

    • Why is it that Alpha Males whine so much?

    • For what it’s worth, I’m not up for ‘healing and uniting’, at least as long as Republicans insist on continuing to support racist sexist homophobic bigots.

      • Ditto.

      • FOX just cut-off Kayleigh McEnany in the middle of a press conference because she was telling outright lies, without providing any kind of evidence whatsoever, accusing the Democratic Party of knowingly committing election fraud. Today Trump fired Defense Secretary Esper, and everyone know it was because Esper resisted the idea of using active military against American protestors in June. Watch out, folks, things are about to get real ugly, real fast. We won’t make it to December 14, the day the state Electors vote, without significant civil strife and violence initiated by the Trump administration, you can count on it. God help us, and I hope I’m wrong.

      • Today Trump has fired a number of senior defense officials and replaced them with people perceived to be loyalists. Another common step of authoritarians on the way to a coup.