October 26, 2020

Not as bad as 1968…yet

Apocalypse then – Chicago burning in 1968

Not as bad as 1968…yet

In the past days, 1968 has emerged as a meme, a way to understand what we’re living through right now.

• Zachary Karabell

[In 1968] the report of the Kerner Commission, appointed by President Lyndon B. Johnson to examine the causes of race riots in American cities in previous years, declares the nation is…”moving toward two societies, one black, one white–separate and unequal.”

• Matthew Twombly

• • •

At Politico, Zachary Karabell reminds us that there have been worse years in American history.

The worst one I’ve lived through was 1968.

For certain, 2020 has been pretty much a total downer so far — pandemic, economic fall off the cliff, election year animus and claptrap, political and cultural leadership of questionable (at best) character and quality, racial strife, riots and trouble in the streets of major U.S. cities. And it’s only June.

However, by June in 1968, the year Smithsonian Magazine called “The Year that Shattered America,” our country was mired in an increasingly unpopular war, some of her clearest moral voices quieted by assassination, her cities on fire, her politics in chaos, and her people divided by race, generational disputes, and a multitude of cultural issues.

In January, the North Vietnamese launched the Tet Offensive, which the U.S. and S. Vietnam fended off, but at the cost of American support for a difficult, extended war. This became a turning point for both public and troop morale with regard to Vietnam.

Also in January, N. Korea attacked and captured the USS Pueblo. Her crew was not released until December.

On February 1, two black Memphis sanitation workers, Echol Cole and Robert Walker, were crushed to death while taking refuge from a rainstorm in a garbage truck. For years, sanitation workers had fought for safer working conditions and better wages. The deaths of Cole and Walker sparked a strike and protest that brought Dr. Martin Luther King to town in April.

On February 8, the Orangeburg Massacre took place in South Carolina when police opened fire on students protesting segregation at a bowling alley, killing 3 and wounding 27. All police officers charged were acquitted.

In March, President Lyndon Johnson shocked Americans by announcing he would not run for reelection, declaring, “There is division in the American house now.”

I believe that we must always be mindful of this one thing, whatever the trials and the tests ahead. The ultimate strength of our country and our cause will lie not in powerful weapons or infinite resources or boundless wealth, but will lie in the unity of our people.

This I believe very deeply.

Throughout my entire public career I have followed the personal philosophy that I am a free man, an American, a public servant, and a member of my party, in that order always and only.

For 37 years in the service of our Nation, first as a Congressman, as a Senator, and as Vice President, and now as your President, I have put the unity of the people first. I have put it ahead of any divisive partisanship.

And in these times as in times before, it is true that a house divided against itself by the spirit of faction, of party, of region, of religion, of race, is a house that cannot stand.

There is division in the American house now. There is divisiveness among us all tonight. And holding the trust that is mine, as President of all the people, I cannot disregard the peril to the progress of the American people and the hope and the prospect of peace for all peoples.

So, I would ask all Americans, whatever their personal interests or concern, to guard against divisiveness and all its ugly consequences.

Fifty-two months and 10 days ago, in a moment of tragedy and trauma, the duties of this office fell upon me. I asked then for your help and God’s, that we might continue America on its course, binding up our wounds, healing our history, moving forward in new unity, to clear the American agenda and to keep the American commitment for all of our people.

United we have kept that commitment. United we have enlarged that commitment.

Through all time to come, I think America will be a stronger nation, a more just society, and a land of greater opportunity and fulfillment because of what we have all done together in these years of unparalleled achievement.

Our reward will come in the life of freedom, peace, and hope that our children will enjoy through ages ahead.

What we won when all of our people united just must not now be lost in suspicion, distrust, selfishness, and politics among any of our people.

Believing this as I do, I have concluded that I should not permit the Presidency to become involved in the partisan divisions that are developing in this political year.

With America’s sons in the fields far away, with America’s future under challenge right here at home, with our hopes and the world’s hopes for peace in the balance every day, I do not believe that I should devote an hour or a day of my time to any personal partisan causes or to any duties other than the awesome duties of this office–the Presidency of your country.

Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your President.

[Would that we had a president who could see things this clearly and speak so eloquently today.]

Also in March, American Lt. William Calley and his company entered My Lai village in S. Vietnam and massacred 300 apparently unarmed civilians including women, children, and the elderly. The public did not learn of this until the fall of 1969.

On April 4, the Rev. Martin Luther King was assassinated by James Earl Ray in Memphis, where King had traveled to support the sanitation workers’ strike. In the week following, riots in more than 100 cities nationwide left 39 people dead, more than 2,600 injured, and 21,000 arrested.

On May 17, the Catonsville Nine — nine Catholic activists —  went to the draft board in Catonsville, Maryland, took 378 draft files, brought them to the parking lot in wire baskets, dumped them out, poured over them home-made napalm, and set them on fire. This sparked more than 300 such attacks on draft boards in the next few years.

On June 4, Robert F. Kennedy, surging as a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, won the California Democratic Primary. Immediately after the victory celebration, Kennedy was assassinated by Sirhan Sirhan as he left the lectern of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.

And the year was only half gone.

Oh, the things still to come during that fateful year! The Glenville Shootout and riots in Cleveland. The tumultuous Democratic Convention in Chicago. The raised fists of Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the Olympic Games in Mexico City. The election of Richard Nixon as POTUS.

We have not even touched on other crises around the world: the Prague Spring and the Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, the Paris riots, plane crashes and sunken submarines, earthquakes, the Biafran humanitarian disaster, executions in Rhodesia, political crises in Poland, violent riots in London, insurgencies in Malaysia, mass demonstrations in Brazil, the Tlatelolco massacre in Mexico, Israeli air attacks in Lebanon.

And, oh yes, we had a flu pandemic in 1968 — the “Hong Kong” flu killed an estimated 1 million people worldwide and 100,000 in the U.S. until the outbreak faded in 1969.

Apocalypse now? Washington, DC 2020

Today is June 2, 2020. Fifty years from now, will people still be comparing this year to 1968? Will the events of this year turn out to be as apocalyptic as that fateful span of twelve months?

Perhaps we have returned to singing 1968’s most portentous song.

Comments

  1. One thing that 1968 did not have is the 24/7 have to fill up the air time cable news coverage. The 3 major cable news networks do not just report the news, they are part of the story. The approach from all three networks was to go overboard with a sympathy for protesters that morphed into opinions and making the looters and lawbreakers have a moral standing with legitimate protesters. All were bad but CNN was absolute pure nonsense with their coverage.

    Lyndon Johnson was a terrible President , lied about Vietnam from day one and was a creature of what we now call the swamp. The Kennedy wing had a high distain for Johnson, so I guess when he had to leave he was great saying good bye. Family became very wealth while in Senate and President.

    One thing that the commenters here will love , these actions will for sure re elect Trump. Also I think that the 2nd Amendment is pretty safe as it does seem the police have guns, we do not need them seems like a quaint argument. The leadership at the state and city level was terrible and the public safety was put at risk

    96 percent of Americans agreed that the cop was stupid, unlawful and should have the book thrown at him. This was the rare time when even the most avid police supporter was firmly on the side of justice and holding the police officer accountable for murder. the initial inaction and letting the looters destroy the city set the agenda across the nation. The first duty of government is to protect the citizens including Floyd and it is the citizens who will pay for the poor leadership and response. The only true winner in this is gun and ammo sales. That is what anarachy brings. Bring our troops back from Kabul and put them in NYC.

  2. cheesehed says

    Still getting your talking points from the RNC, looks like.

    • anonymous says

      OR from Russia’s Internet Research Agency

      Ahead of November’s election, American intelligence officials and others are on high alert for mischief from Russia’s Internet Research Agency.

      • senecagriggss says

        So what are they going to do? So you’re on “high alert.” So what?

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          Well, Putin REALLY wanted Trump to win in 2016…

        • anonymous says

          so what? come November we’ll know

          • Christiane says

            wonders and signs ! ! !

            trump favorite, Iowa’s hometown white supremacist supporter Steve King got beat in his primary

            took Iowa a while, but hey, they did it! They gave that racist’s racist the boot. Good on you, Iowa!

            tide may be turning away from the crazy

  3. senecagriggss says

    History does repeat itself.

  4. senecagriggss says

    Will the Sheriff’s words discourage looters? [ Polk County Florida ]

    “I would tell them, if you value your life, they probably shouldn’t do that in Polk County. Because the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns, I encourage them to own guns, and they’re going to be in their homes tonight with their guns loaded,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told reporters during a news briefing.

    “And if you try to break into their homes to steal, to set fires, I’m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So, leave the community alone.”
    __________

    There are at least 400 millions guns in the US in private hands; legal or illegal. It does give one pause. I don’t think rioters want to hit the ‘burbs. If I’m a rioter in Polk County, I’m re-thinking my options.

    • Robert F says

      You think rioters don’t have guns? The fact that there hasn’t been more shooting from those involved in the civil unrest is not due to their not having guns. And the lack of mass transit — especially outside cities — in the US is the reason this hasn’t, and probably won’t, for the most part “hit the ‘burbs”, not directly anyway.

      • Adam Tauno Williams says

        Many of these “protestors” are coming in from the ‘burbs.

        The delightful habit of Instagraming themselves committing crimes has been a dark source of amusement.

        Locally one notorious young lady was turned in by her own grandmother, based on photos posted to the internet.

        What a world.

        • Robert F says

          Yeah, it’s easy for privileged suburban kids bent on becoming part of a “cause” to get to the city, but for those not-so-privileged people trapped in cities it’s not so easy to get to the suburbs. The kids can go home to safe suburban enclaves after a day of burning and rioting, but the residents of the burned and looted places have to live there.

          • Adam Tauno Williams says

            Yep.

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            During my time at Newman Center in the early Eighties, the Social Justice days before Pope John Paul shut down the Liberation Theology movement, I noticed a pattern:
            AMONG THE SOCIAL JUSTICE TYPES, THE MOST RABID COMMUNISTS (AND I MEAN THAT LITERALLY) WERE ALWAYS THE RICH KIDS, “YUPPIE PUPPIES” FROM THEIR GATED COMMUNITIES WHO GOT NEW BMW’S FOR THEIR 16TH BIRTHDAYS.

      • senecagriggss says

        Yeah, but they’re way out-gunned, out ammo’d by the people living in the ‘burbs.

        • Robert F says

          Polk County probably exports rioters to nearby cities. They should stay home, and if they’re going to riot, they should do it in Polk County, where they live, not where somebody else has to live.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          AKA “We have millions of assault rifles and billions of rounds of ammo. They can’t even decide which bathroom to use. Bring it on!”

          “Power comes out of the barrel of a gun.”
          — Mao Zedong, founder of the current Dynasty

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            And for what it’s worth, I’ve started getting spammed with a lot of “GET YOUR CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT” spams.

            Morning drive-time radio has been doing a “TURN YOUR ASSETS INTO GOLD!!!” ad on heavy rotation that starts with “Coronavirus shows how quick the Gubmint can Take Your Freedom Away”. Don’t know how having your 401k converted into gold ingots and/or Krugerrands “we’ll ship to you” is a solution.

            Reminds me of a guy who used to drunk-dial me about “LISTEN TO GLENN BECK BEFORE IT”S TOO LATE! GOLD! GOLD! GOLD! GUNS! GOLD! GOLD! GOLD! GAWD!” (The weird calls ended when the guy stopped drinking, I kid you not.)

    • If you were to ever get inside the head of one of these rioters, you may be surprised at what you would find.

      • senecagriggs says

        What might I find?

        • Well, since you asked, let them speak for themselves…

          ‘Here are some of the voices from the protests, which have included many people who say they’ve never protested before:

          “In every city, there’s a George Floyd,” said Michael Sampson II, 30, of Jacksonville, Fla.

          “It could be my father, my brother, my uncle, my cousin, my friend,” said Victoria Sloan, 27, of Brooklyn. “It makes me angry.”

          “I’m speaking for everybody, all my kinfolk, all my brothers and sisters who’ve gotten beaten up by police,” said Cory Thomas, 40, who said the police beat him when he was a teenager in Brooklyn. “I don’t condone the violence,” or the looting, he said, “but at the end of the day, no 14-year-old should be beat up by police.”

          “If we don’t fight for change we’re not going to get it,” Douglas Golliday, a 65-year-old resident of a Minneapolis suburb, told The Star Tribune while waiting to be taken to jail along with his 44-year-old son, Robert, and other protesters.

          “I took six rubber bullets, but do you know what didn’t happen to me?” Elizabeth Ferris, a 36-year-old Georgetown University student, told The Washington Post. “No one kneeled on my neck.”

          Ashley Gary of Minneapolis said: “We’ve been through Jamar Clark, we’ve been through Philando Castile, and there was no justice whatsoever. We’re tired of it, we are very tired. My son, he’s 16 and six feet tall, and I don’t want him to be taken as somebody bad because he’s a bigger black man.”

          “I came out peacefully to show my support, and the police are aiming right at me,” Mariana Solaris, a 20-year-old from San Bernardino, Calif., told The Los Angeles Times, after the police fired foam pellets at her. “I saw this on the news earlier tonight,” she said, “and I thought, ‘No way is it really like that out there with the police.’ So I came out to see. And, yeah, it’s really like that.””

          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/protester-profiles-floyd-minneapolis.html

          • senecagriggss says

            They have opined.

            • Is that all you have to say?

              • Robert F says

                He has opined.

                • David Cornwell says

                  As always.

                • But he doesn’t seem to have listened.

                  If whites had been oppressed this way, & for as long, you bet they’d be ‘opining’, & expecting to be heard.

                  It really is time black people were heard, & if peaceful protest is not allowed (NFL) or never listened to, what will be left?

                  Violent protesting is not right; neither is centuries of race based oppression.

                  • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                    But he doesn’t seem to have listened.

                    Because he is Never Wrong.
                    He can Never Be Wrong.

                    • Robert F says

                      And even if he’s wrong, it’s God’s will.

                    • senecagriggs says

                      I have a history of being careful around uniformed people who carry guns.
                      I have a history of doing my best to not be part of a mob.
                      I’ve basically attempted to not do illegal things that would get me jailed.
                      I never wanted to be “Kellite trained.” [ Those big black metal flashlights police used to use on anybody who chose to resist them – if you were ever hit by one in the head you immediately became “Kellite trained.” ]

                      HOWEVER I have torn the tags off all my mattresses when no one is looking.

                      In traffic, I have sometimes zigged when I should have zagged.
                      Questioned the thinking of my teachers, bosses and supervisors.
                      I have looked for ways to work around rules laws and approved procedures..
                      I’ve gone up the down staircases
                      Entered thru the Exits
                      And told inappropriate jokes at inappropriate times.

                      But I never wanted to get shot by the police; seemed like an unnecessary risk.
                      Been made to stand outside the classroom for carrying humor to far.

                    • All because you are white. A black person can get into trouble just for being black, even if they are straight as an arrow. If you don’t believe me, just ask them.

                    • This past Saturday I was unloading my truck at the marina where my boat is. it’s an area where there aren’t many blacks but it is a very popular tourist area. The lake level is very high from all the rain we’ve had and about half the parking lot is flooded. There is yellow caution tape up to block off areas where you can park and to mark the ‘loop’ to follow since traffic is one-way.

                      As I was walking a black family, two adult males and one adult female, got out of their SUV with Ohio plates (tourists from out of the area) with their cooler and fishing gear. They were walking to the marina office to get the pontoon boat they had rented. As they walked toward the office dock they stopped at the caution tape. i told them to go under it and on to the office. They were genuinely confused or concerned. Later I realized that they were probably afraid to cross the yellow ‘police’ tape. To me that would never have been an issue, but to these folks something as simple as going under the caution tape in a strange area (with lots of southern racists) created a problem for them.

                      There is something wrong when someone is afraid, or at best, confused about whether to go under a caution tape to the boat ramp. That is not part of my culture, but apparently it was for these nice folks. Seneca, I’m guessing these folks also have a history of being careful around uniformed people who carry guns, but for a different reason.

                  • Only white Evangelicals are oppressed. ;o/

              • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                As always for Seneca’s August Words:
                Shouldn’t that be Self-Evident?

              • Clay Crouch says

                That’s the most dismissive, callous comment you’ve ever made.

    • senecagriggss says

      I actually think the Sherriff’s speech is simply Psych Ops. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want the horrific paper work associated with a shooting.

      • Then he still shouldn’t have said it, if only to not be caught out making empty threats – let alone the immorality of the proposed actions.

        • senecagriggss says

          Theft is immoral. [ Thou Shalt not Steal ]

          Defending your life, family and property is not.

          The immorality is in the theft.

          • God does not give us permission to use evil to punish evil. And is my murder more heinous than theft? Is not life more valuable than property?

            • Should be just “murder”, although I must admit I would find being murdered quite heinous. :-/

            • Headless Unicorn Guy says

              God does not give us permission to use evil to punish evil.

              The End Justifies the Means.
              (Even if that end is only a loyal Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade.)
              Ask any Christian Culture Warrior.
              It’s Them Or Us.

        • Robert F says

          In Louisville KY police and national guard responded to what they claim were shots that came from a group of people in a parking lot that they were clearing for curfew by “returning fire”. They shot indiscriminately into the group, killing one man who probably had nothing to do with the gunshot they claim to have heard, and local restaurant owner whose business was located on right by the parking lot. The governor of KY demanded that the body cam video of the incident be given over for investigation, but was told by the police chief that none of the officers’ body cams were on at the time of the incident. The police have been involved in so many immoral actions in the wake if this unrest that it would take years to investigate them all; but, for the most part, they won’t be investigated.

          • Wasn’t that police chief sacked for that response?

            *Google search*

            Yep, he was.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/01/louisville-police-chief-fired/

            • Robert F says

              Same police chief who dragged his feet in investigating the police killing of Breonna Taylor in March. This is not just about one police killing. Louisville police served a no-knock warrant on Taylor’s home. They used a battering ram to knock the door down in the middle of the night, unannounced. Her boyfriend was there, and thought the home was being invaded, so he shot at what he had every reason to believe were criminal home interlopers; the cops returned fire blindly into the apartment, killing Taylor as she lay asleep in bed.

  5. Michael Z says

    One thing that makes 2020 different from 1968, though, is the sheer amount of hopelessness and nihilism in our country, particularly in poor communities (both urban and rural). That, rather than the division, should probably be our primary concern, because that hopelessness saps people’s ability to stand up and face the challenges in front of us and work for a better tomorrow.

    • Adam Tauno Williams says

      This.

    • Hopelessness also means they have nothing to lose.

    • I agree. The thing that most people not in poorer communities are still not seeing is the massive divide between the top 20% and the rest of the country. The top 20% have houses in the burbs, good schools, fast casual restaurants, Target, and evangelical mega churches. The bottom 80% increasingly are loosing access to basic housing, education, and even churches.

      Pertaining to this blog, the evangelical mega church is almost entirely the top 20% group.

      • “the evangelical mega church is almost entirely the top 20% group.”

        I’ve made a point for years of not really reading my Facebook feed, for any number of reasons. Yesterday, as all this was coming to a head, I gave a thorough look through it, especially noting the responses of those evangelical friends still on the feed. One (an immigrant) was unabashedly in favor of the protesters. But that person was outnumbered by others who, while not going so far as to praise You Know Who’s actions, gave hearty approval to “maintaining law and order” and also condoning the anti-quarantine protests. Message received, loud and clear.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        Pertaining to this blog, the evangelical mega church is almost entirely the top 20% group.

        ALMOST?

    • Burro (Mule) says

      The protests are not as organized either.

      I was 16 in 1968. There were bombings, starting that year and continuing on for the next decade or so. People don’t remember that aspect of the late sixties and early seventies. There were well organized, committed groups dedicated to, if not the overthrow of the US government, then at least the fomentation of chaos and disorder.

      Interestingly, it all kind of dissipated once Nixon abolished the draft. It seems like that was all anyone was concerned about.

      The recent minor disturbances in Atlanta were televised live. The protesters were for the most part well-behaved and the police restrained, but a police squad car was burned and a restaurant sacked. I don’t think the TV commentators were very responsible, continually referring to these incidents as ‘turning points’ in the protest, when it appeared that they were initiated by youngish white people and continued by opportunists. Whether these were false flag incidents, state actors, or paid provocations will be left as an exercise for the reader. There is plenty of fuel out there on the Internet.

      • “it all kind of dissipated once Nixon abolished the draft. It seems like that was all anyone was concerned about.”

        So much for the vaunted “moral conscience” of the young boomers..

      • Robert F says

        I think you are spot on about how the movement back then was much better organized, and more violent, whereas today it’s disorganized and chaotic, although plenty of people on the right want to make what’s happening now seem like a nationwide Antifa conspiracy, since it serves their political purposes and goals to do so. And sadly, I think you’re right about the draft, not idealism, being the central motivation for the involvement of young white people in the civil unrest back then. Both your points are reasons why this would not be a movement with the staying power to continue much longer. But the anguish and rage and hopelessness of poor black people trapped in economic dead zones (that have only gotten worse with the coronavirus crisis) for generations is arguably worse than it was then; that’s the wild card.

        • No, it wasn’t primarily about the draft. Itwas a protest against an immoral war, the lies, the hubris, and the young lives sacrificed for nothing. That’s what I got gassed for peacefully protesting back in ’68.

          • Robert F says

            In ’68 I wasn’t even ten years old yet, so I trust you’re memory over mine. My brother enlisted a couple years before, and regrets it to this day.

  6. Robert F says

    There have supposedly been fifty plus years of progress on racial division, civil rights, and social justice in our country since 1968 It hasn’t seemed to do much more than allow for a tiny growth in the percentage of middle-class black people, but left the rest of the black urban population trapped in poor, crime- and drug-ridden city neighborhoods with shitty schools and few economic opportunities — and plenty of systemic police brutality — for decade after decade, generation after generation. But this pandemic crisis has just pulled the economic rug out from beneath the white and black middle-class, and the poor black urban communities have born the worst brunt of the disease and the economic dislocation it’s causing. We also now have enormous numbers of black men incarcerated in US prisons. A new generation of white supremacists have learned how to use the internet and social media disinformation along with fake flag street actions to feed the fires of racial hatred. We have a president and national leadership that intentionally feeds the fire of division, political, racial, social, and economic. Things have not gotten better for most black people in the US since 1968, we’ve been fooling ourselves with the illusion that they have, and that makes what’s happening now just the beginning of something far worse than 1968.

    • Adam Tauno Williams says

      The saddest part, to me, is that we arrive at this point and have no one. No leaders. Certainly not the church. Local and regional institutions have been worn down by decade after decade of Austerity nonsense [deliberately in many cases]. The system seems not so much likely to come crashing down – as that would imply it had some heft – but to merely dissolve into dust like so many old bones.

      Intuitively many feel this, we wake up every morning, another seal has been broken, and, yeah, of course; why would it hold?

      • Robert F says

        It seems like those caught up in the grip of civil unrest have embraced the attitude of Malcolm X rather than Martin Luther King. King’s vision has only made a small difference in their lives for most of them. But Malcolm X knew that, if too much power tends to corrupt, so does too little power, whole societies and individualsr. Yes, there are outside agitators– on both the left and right — making this worse than it might be otherwise be, but if that leads one to believe that the rage that is being agitated is not real, deep, and deadly, then one is sorely mistaken.

        • I recently read MLK’s ‘Letter from a Birmingham Jail’ to the religious leaders who had criticized his decision to come to Birmingham as an ‘outside agitator’. In that letter (which is truly moving), King warned that if the Christian church did not take up the cause of justice, and support non-violent protest, many would turn to violent protest, and listen to the voices of those who repudiated Christianity and ‘have concluded that the white man is an incurable “devil”‘, such as the Nation of Islam. Unfortunately he was right. The conservative churches, by and large, were on the wrong side of history then and are again today. And it has no voice and no alternatives to offer oppressed people.

          The issue is more than simply poor policing, or protesting turned violent. And the police holding hands with protesters, while better than fighting them, really doesn’t address the issues. The issues that must be addressed are about the racism that still exists today. I don’t condone the violence anymore than anyone else, but I can understand it. After 400 years of oppression, injustice, and some progress, black men (in particular) are still not treated the same as white men, by the judicial system, by employers, or by the rest of us. That frustration King wrote about has again come to a boiling point and that anger is being expressed again. I’m afraid that if I were a young black man I would probably not follow King’s way either.

          Unfortunately, there are only a couple of ways to deal with it. The local and state leaders seem to be taking the better approach – allow the protests, but try to contain the violence. Our national leader wants to crush the protests, even peaceful protests as in DC when he wanted to clear a path for a photo op at a church.

          We need a leader who will deal with this constructively – listen to the concerns, work to bring about change, to unify the nation and bring healing. In the 1960s Johnson met with civil rights leaders to work on legislation to bring about change. We need that again. But, that’s not likely to happen right now. First, it would require acknowledging a problem exists, and even more problematic, it would require compromise and humility. And this crisis is also a perfect opportunity to play to the base and their fears. Scared white people will always vote for the strongman. So, bring we’ll probably roll out the tanks. Tiananmen Square USA.

          • senecagriggs says

            We had Mr. Obama for 8 years. A black man was elected to the highest office in the land; TWICE.
            And yet, here we are; as if it never happened.

            • Because the man elected after Obana set out with a will to undo everything Obama did. With the explicit approval of those who voted him into office.

          • Robert F says

            I’m afraid that if I were a young black man I would probably not follow King’s way either.

            I feel the same way as you do.

            I’m afraid when our president and the Republican leaders who today are supporting his decision to tear gas peaceful demonstrators for a photo op are done brutalizing American protestors, we as a country will have exactly no moral leg left to stand on when it comes to human rights.

      • Christiane says

        the most basic seal of all was broken, so trump knew he ‘could’ get away with whatever

        no one spoke for the babies taken from their mothers’ arms

        that is a ‘sacred’ seal you don’t break and still be called ‘humane’

        and when no one spoke up, DT saw a green light

    • And is it any coincidence that we saw this outburst of white conservative dog-in-the-mamger spite after a two term black president and a Supreme Court decision to legitimize LGBTQ marriage? I think they were, and are, willing to support anything and anyone who will turn back time…

      • Robert F says

        Yes, the white American middle-class is being radicalized by fear of the poor and the non-white residents of the urban US, and that fear is being intentionally stoked by media and internet savvy bad actors, including our president. Even though violent crime rates are much lower now than in 1968, you would think that the US is awash in violent crime. That is due to a 24/7 news cycle,which is intentionally framed by for political, social, and racist agitators as evidence of an unprecedented crime wave that threatens middle-class America.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          Resulting in “Self Defense White Supremacy”, i.e. not for any of the usual pseudoscience/fantasy reasons, but the simple Zero-Sum game of “It’s Them or Us!”.

          The “unprecedented criime wave that threatens middle-class America” has been a dogwhistle for a LONG time. After WW2, Chief Parker got grass-roots support for his cleanup of the highly-corrupt LAPD by invoking that plus the Race Card — “By 1970 this city will be 30% [black]. The LAPD is the only thing that can protect you from them.”

        • Burro (Mule) says

          Which is a terrible shame because the same reagents that dissolved the Black community and then the working class White community are now operating on the White middle class.

          Why is it taking so long to discern the real malefactors?

          (No, no, not the ((()))s)

          • Robert F says

            Don’t be coy. Say what you mean: what “real malefactors”?

            • Burro (Mule) says
            • Headless Unicorn Guy says

              Don’t be coy. Say what you mean: what “real malefactors”?

              The JOOZ(TM) or Proper Code Words Du Jour?
              (I’m starting to hear that on the fringier comment threads like YouTube. So far, infrequent and definitely Off My Meds kook rants, but it’s there.)

              • Robert F says

                In our collective societal past the circuitous way Burro was referring to those “real malefactors” would’ve meant exactly that, but I hoped he wasn’t going there. And he didn’t go there…. I think…

                • Burro (Mule) says

                  I didn’t.

                  There is, in my mind, a distinction between Capital and those who serve it and eventually are possessed by the abstract but dark forces behind it.

                  The Jooz are a smokescreen. This is not a human enemy.

                • Dana Ames says

                  No, he didn’t.

                  He went to something in which we all have a part, in all its aspects. Chayefsky was prophetic.

                  Lord, have mercy and heal us.

                  Dana

                • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                  ANd I hope he’s not going to further identify “the real malefactors” with a “Let Him Who Has Eyes to See, See; Let Him Who Has Ears to Hear, Hear.”

                  There was some really cagey guy on another blog who did just that with veiled comments about “Luciferian” Conspiracies behind the scenes and even more veiled hints about “something big is coming”. But every time you tried to pin him down on any details or clarifications – ANYTHING – he’d retreat to a smug “Let Him Who Has Eyes to See, See. Let Him Who Has Ears to Hear, Hear.” Guy was THAT slippery. Drove me up the wall.

                  I wrote him off as a troll. Can’t remember the quote from that Father Brown Mystery about Mystics and Mystagogues, so I’ll use my other analogy:
                  “The Sphinx” from the ground-level comic and movie Mystery Men, a third-string superhero whose ONLY superpower was Being Mysterious.

                  • Burro (Mule) says

                    I got moderated, but my response was along the lines of what Dana said.

                    We are facing a transhuman enemy, but one who has many human allies and drudges. “I have no counsel for those who despair, but as for me, I pity even his slaves.”

                    • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                      Just last week, my SIL bent my ear about “demonic activities” regarding COVID-19. After the Persecution of Donald Trump regarding Hydroxychorooquine Miracle Cure, she went into anecdotes of unspecified “demonic activity”. I think she’s starting to lose it after two months’ in lockdown.

                      “Everyone.
                      Stay Inside.
                      Forever!”
                      — voide ballon from door of 10 Downing Street in a British pandemic Infographic video

                  • Robert F says

                    No, no. I missed the part of what he said with parentheses inside parenthesis, wherein Mule — using Alt Right symbolism, mind you — said he wasn’t referring to Jews.

              • Norma Cenva says

                I wondered how long it would take until the Jews got blamed for this whole imbroglio.

      • Adam Tauno Williams says

        > is it any coincidence

        No.

  7. Adam Tauno Williams says

    > Not as bad as 1968…yet

    This feels like a setup for a “challenge accepted” joke. It’s not very funny.

  8. Robert F says

    I’m sorry, but the Beatles “Revolution” does not fit the mood on the city streets of this country right now. This song does.

  9. Klasie Kraalogies says

    1968 was a lot worse in many aspects- I think the highlighting of horrors like Mai Lai shows that. Horrors perpetrated outside the borders of the US.

    One thing that is different though, as far as I can ascertain, is the continuous and deliberate targeting of journalists. Yesterday a journalist for ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) was attacked by police while live on air. The world sees this. As one commentator said, this is a major propaganda win for China. As they turn on the screws in Hong Kong, they will point to the US and say – see, you did the same.

    • You know, I’m sure, that a certain segment of the American public couldn’t care less what the rest of the world thinks of us. We’re ‘Murica, we can do no wrong…

      • Robert F says

        Also, a lot of Americans distrust journalists and the media even more than they distrust politicians. They really could care less of journalists get roughed up, or even killed.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          Because Journalists are Librul Media — THE ENEMY.
          And you don’t win a war by coddling THE ENEMY.

      • senecagriggs says

        “We’re ‘Murica, we can do no wrong”

        What a despicable nation is the USA- dryly

        For the life of us, why would anybody want to enter this country legally or illegally. sarc

        Come on Eeyore , my friend. I can’t think of anywhere in the world I would rather live.

        • Robert F says

          How many other places have you visited?

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            He got banned at Wartburg Watch several times, sneaking in under a new handle every time.

            • That made me laugh.

              All under Dee’s eye.

              • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                Iincluding the time he came in under a new handle, all Wide-Eyed Innocent.
                “Seneca? Who’s Seneca?”

                Until “Eagle traced your IP, SENECA.”

                The reason Dee gave for moderating then banning him was violation of her Prime Directive:
                Do Not Put Down the Victims.
                Do Not Take The SIde of the Abusers.

            • senecagriggss says

              I’m not banned; it’s more like “double secret probation.”

              • A ban by any other name…

              • Christiane says

                I was banned by Dee, but she gave me the grace of being able to thank Wade for his sermon after my husband passed

                I really appreciated that.

                • senecagriggs says

                  What? You Christiane? Seriously?

                  You are single-handedly destroying the narrative that Seneca Griggs in so uniquely terrible that he was banned by Wartburg. smile

                  • Christiane says

                    you didn’t know !
                    It was a while ago. senecagriggs
                    well, someone asked me ‘why?’, so here’s the story as far as I know it:

                    “Clay Crouch says
                    January 7, 2019 at 6:18 pm
                    Why in the world were you thrown off of Wartburg Watch?”

                    “Christiane says
                    January 7, 2019 at 6:47 pm
                    Hello Clay,
                    I’m not exactly sure. I remember I offended someone called ‘Daisy’ and that was my first awareness of a problem. She blogs under the name of ‘Miss Daisy Flower’. She was REALLY offended.

                    I also tried to reconcile Velour who helped with the prayer lists each week to Dee. It was a good faith effort on my part. Dee had given me the impression that I did not have the whole story, but I thought if I could convince them to talk to each other, but ever the problem was might be resolved.

                    In the end, Dee made a good decision, in my opinion. Daisy needed to be on Wartburg Watch more than I did. I take no offense. But I always hoped that Velour might reconcile with Dee, and vice versa, but it was not to be.

                    long story there, and the truth is, I don’t know the whole of it, so I never fully understood the bigger picture as I was not privy to the heart of the story, no

                    I do not take anything personally, and am at peace with my being put off though, as I must have crossed boundaries that were invisible to me but unacceptable to others, so I take responsibility for what happened in so far as I can do this.

                    Sorry if not clear, but I really don’t know everything that was going on between other people and obviously I said what made things worse. All is well with me. I hope Dee’s work prospers.
                    Wartburg Watch provides a good service to the Church as a spotlight on some of the worst abuses out there. They deserve our support and our prayers.”

                    “Beakerj says
                    January 9, 2019 at 5:35 pm
                    Yeah, there was a lot going in behind the scenes, especially when Velour just went postal & began making accusations that people were saying things in comments that they just weren’t saying. My suspicion is that Velour had some issues, & that maybe some of what she had represented herself as wasn’t true. Dee has absolutely kept Velour’s problems confidential though, just a hint that things weren’t well. I don’t think reconciliation was on the cards, as the situation wasn’t what Velour was presenting it as.

                    It’s very very rare to get kicked off the Watch, very rare. It took Jimmy (Seneca) a lot of hard work to get blocked on & off.”

          • senecagriggs says

            A brief tour of Switzerland/Germany and Austria. A number of visits to Canada. I’m NOT well traveled but I watch ACORN TV which has some great COP shows in various parts of the world. I can’t say I’m anxious to travel.

            • Then perhaps you should be less eager to judge.

              • senecagriggss says

                Eeyore, what other countries in the world struggle with illegals like we do? [ Note – there are countries like Greece trying to stem the tide of Muslims. ]

                • Mexico, dealing with Central American migrants? Colombia and Brazil, with Venezuelan refugees? And that’s just this hemisphere….

                  • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                    You want to hear horror stories of vicious Racism, ask a Central American about Mexicans or a Korean about Japanese.

                    And the Official Line of “Whites are the ONLY Racists” just pours gasoline onto the fire of Self-Defense White Supremacy.

                    • Well, our problem in the US is *white* racism, so that’s what we have to discuss.

                • Dana Ames says

                  Our “struggle” in this regard is with our Congress, which is supposed to legislate. Both parties have kicked the immigration can down the street for decades. Congress could take steps to fix this, but because “compromise” is a dirty word now, and everyone plays to their political base, nobody would get everything they want from such legislation and everyone would be mad at them. It’s Congress that has us in this fix, not “illegals”. And as for other countries, it’s war and famine (both cause and consequence of war).

                  Dana

                  • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                    Our “struggle” in this regard is with our Congress, which is supposed to legislate. Both parties have kicked the immigration can down the street for decades.

                    And now (like government employee pensions in my state) the ever-growing snowball is reaching Critical Mass.

        • “why would anybody want to enter this country legally or illegally.”

          Believe me, many people who once would have gladly immigrated here are asking themselves that very question.

          “I can’t think of anywhere in the world I would rather live.”

          That’s because you live at the top of the pile. It looks really different at the bottom.

          • Robert F says

            From the bottom you can’t even see the top.

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            Believe me, many people who once would have gladly immigrated here are asking themselves that very question.

            Feature, not Bug?

            • We all have to remember that much said here including my own comments are for the most part opinion. The vast majority of the world would come to the USA in a minute if they could. Best county in the history of the world. Even have freedom to loot

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            “I can’t think of anywhere in the world I would rather live.”

            That’s because you live at the top of the pile. It looks really different at the bottom.

            In the words of the prophet Melvyn Kaminsky:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSEMshf_tN0

            • senecagriggs says

              That’s why people keep on trekking in Ken. They want to change piles.

        • Iain Lovejoy says

          I’m from the UK, and I can tell you there is no way I am even visiting the US any time soon, and have thought this for a while, and I’m white. I definitely wouldn’t bring my (mixed race) family, and once my boy is a few years older (particularly since he is hyperactive / ADHD) I would be utterly terrified of bringing him for fear of what might happen if he came into contact with any of your police. Going anywhere in the South or Mid-West “flyover” states I’d be even more petrified. Many countries’ governments issue travel warnings to their citizens about the US in relation to the prevalence of firearms.

          • senecagriggs says

            Well we’ve got plenty of fire arms – no doubt. But somehow, despite these problems there is estimated to be

            Yale, MIT study: 22 million, not 11 million, undocumented people in the USA who came despite our police.

            • Link?

              • Headless Unicorn Guy says

                And links to Q-Anon or Breitbart do not qualify.
                Neither does World Net Daily.

              • Burro (Mule) says

                Yale Study

                May or may not be true.

                • Interesting. I did not know the old model for estimating the numbers was quite so old. But I do like that the article went out of it’s way to explain the statistical ins and outs of how such estimates work.

                • Iain Lovejoy says

                  It’s one study at the end of 2018 that was wildly out of whack with every other one before or since, as far as I can see, and seems to be using the slightly odd method of estimating the largely unknown numbers of people coming in and subtracting the largely unknowable number of people leaving and taking the difference between two wild guesses. 11 million seems to be the approximate number got by just about every other study done, usually based on trying to estimate or count the number of immigrants actually in the US.
                  It was widely reported on Fox and assorted right-wing media sites and right ei g pundits at the time, for obvious reasons, and is still cited because it fits in with what they want to believe.

                  • Iain, So that hotbed of conservative thought Yale came up with a verified , published study by two liberal professors . The figure of 11 million is about 15 years old and the number of illegal aliens since then has been large, we do not know as we have lost control of our borders. The public will be appalled when the true number of illegal aliens is ever revealed but no one seems to be interested in the true number except these the neo conservatives at Yale.

                    • Suppose there are that many. Does that make cages and concentration camps acceptable?

                    • Robert F says

                      They’re okay with cages and concentration camps, although they call the latter detention centers. They claim that they are not concentration camps because they don’t know the definition of concentration camp.

    • Robert F says

      Targeting of journalists. Yep.

    • We have been aiding the Saudis in killing civilians in Yemen since 2015. The death toll from malnutrition and violence is probably in the hundreds of thousands.

      Americans as a whole pay little attention to what we do overseas unless American soldiers are being killed.

  10. I get very frustrated with the ineffective and slow response of our local, state and federal police agencies and their approach to this situation. Why are rumors? or are they facts? so hard to confirm. If it is true that some of the rioters and looters are white nationalist rabble rouser, there to push the violence why is that so hard to confirm. Arrest the fairly obvious looters who are leading the looting. Even if not held very long, run a background on them and see there personal history and crime history. This would also apply to the Antifa leaders who should be arrested and background examined. This would be simple and the information available to the public ASAP. Even watching TV you can see the behind the scene vandals who are promoting and inciting the ones there just to loot and be an average mob. Either the Antifa involvement is true or not and the same for the white nationalist charge. Home address, work history, income source, arrival into area, where they are staying etc. could be done quickly. At least the facts should be verified or not rather quickly. Of course the national press is entirely useless when it comes to investigative reporting or even curious about any background. Would would have happened if the Minn. police had been pro active and not let the situation get out of hand so quickly?

    • “Why are rumors? or are they facts? so hard to confirm. If it is true that some of the rioters and looters are white nationalist rabble rouser, there to push the violence why is that so hard to confirm”

      1) because they go out of their way to cover their tracks.

      2) because their existence and actions run counter to the narrative certain news outlets would like to disseminate.

      3) there exists an element in law enforcement that actually sympathizes with white supremacists.

      • Eeyore, That is my point , it is not hard to confirm if the desire to find the truth is there. Very simple , do a complete background check including income source and they are either involved with the white nut jobs or the paid Antifa thugs. Not that hard or the police and FBI are totally hopeless. Your last statement is based on what? There is a blue code for sure but white power groups are given too much credit for their influence.

        • I posted a link elsewhere here that lists the reports on white supemacist infiltration, some of them written by the government. You may find them enlightening.

          • Robert F says

            Lots of white supremacists in the military and law enforcement, border patrol too.

            • Headless Unicorn Guy says

              I can see why they’d want to infiltrate.
              Get control of the Enforcers and make them YOUR Enforcers.
              Same reason crooked MegaPastorSuperapostles cultivate and groom Cops in their congregations.

    • Adam Tauno Williams says

      > the Antifa leaders

      There is no such organization as “Antifa”; therefore its leaders cannot be arrested.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        “The first rule of Fight Club is there is no Fight Club.”

      • Robert F says

        Exactly. What is referred to as Antifa is not an national organization.

      • Christiane says

        the ‘leaders’ have been exposed as white supremacists calling themselves ‘antifa’ and stirring the pot

    • Adam Tauno Williams says

      > This would be simple and the information available to the public ASAP

      How so? Where is that information? And being a White Supremacist is not a crime.

      • anonymous says

        it’s a crime against humanity IF played out as by the SS who saw the Jews as ‘defiling German blood’
        – go yourself and visit Auschwitz and then go see the Memorial Museum in Israel called Yad Vashem if you want to know the price of race hubris and contempt for ‘the others’ as a ‘final solution’,
        and think about the nature of ‘white supremacy’ . . . an old and hate-filled philosophy of race hatred that took 6 million lives

        https://youtu.be/7_qluBNRVNs

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          White Supremacy also depends on how the Supremacists define White(TM). And according to Stephen Jay Gould’s essays on the subject, in the 19th Century scientists defined “White” so narrowly that only the definer’s in-group made the cut. Irish weren’t White. Italians weren’t White. Spaniards weren’t White. Slavs weren’t White (A lot of this seemed to break down along the lines of the Reformation Wars: Non-Prrotestants weren’t White.) In the Anglosphere, the only True Whites were “The Anglo-Saxon Race”, tall, blond, blue-eyed as Scandinavians. (Tall, blond, blue-eyed.. where else have we seen that combination?) Descended from That Earliest Englishman, Piltdown Man.

          And the one-drop rule applied..By the standards of 19th Century Scientific Racism, I am not a White Man (mother’s family came from somewhere in Northern Italy; not just one drop, but 50/50). Same with a majority of today’s white men.

    • Iain Lovejoy says

      No one can “arrest the Antifa leaders” because there is no such organisation as “Antifa” and there are consequently no leaders of it to arrest. The description “anitfa” is a shorthand for “anti-fascist” used by various left wingers engaged in counter-demonstrations and direct action against right wing political groups. Designating “Antifa” as a terrorist organisation is a method for Trump to arrest his political opponents for opposing what they regard as fascism.

  11. Robert F says

    This is our president’s inhumanity expressed together with his cynical and exploitative contempt for religion. He has an area cleared of nonviolent protestors with tear gas so that he can have a photo op in front of historic St. John’s church — called the church of the presidents — which was damaged by fire during riots. And he holds a Bible up in the photo. Contempt for Christianity, contempt for the welfare of human beings, contempt for the teachings of Jesus, exploitation of the naivete and religious decadence of Christian supporters.

    • Robert F says

      Well, I guess it could’ve been worse, right? He could’ve had the peaceful protestors machine gunned down instead of tear gassed. But he’s a nice guy, people who get to know him, they all say so. So he says, no machine guns today, no, just tear gas, because I’m a nice guy, everybody says so.

    • Clay Crouch says

      What will it take for white, conservative evangelicals to disavow Trump? He is getting damn close to shooting someone in Times Square, in broad daylight.

      • He would have to go back on their unspoken bargain. As long as he gives them privileges, insults their political enemies, appoints “pro-life” judges, and cracks down on immigration and (non-white) protestors, they will not disavow him. That’s why they elected him.

        • Clay Crouch says

          I believe that’s called, selling your birthright.

        • Burro (Mule) says

          Until last week, I would have voted for him again.

          I won’t now.

          But I’ll be damned if I’ll vote for Biden/Abrams unless I’m in a Hazmat suit.

          If that is our alternative we are more ferkockt than even I though possible.

          • At least Biden is a functional adult, and third party isn’t a viable option yet. Suck it up and Vote Blue, unless you want four more years of this insanity.

            • Headless Unicorn Guy says

              More than four.

              “President For Life… We really need to try that here.”
              — Donald J Trump, in praise of Xi of China

              (And the Christians chorus “AAAAA-MENNN! HIS KINGDOM SHALL HAVE NO END!!!”)

              • Robert F says

                That’s what he wants. Then the Trump dynasty will start. Jr. might secretly have Ivanka assassinated so that he can be next in line for the throne. Shakespearean tragedy and fratricide written like a sleazy tabloid instead of masterful poetry.

            • Burro (Mule) says

              It’s right at my limits of suck.

              If the Democrats had an army, like the (Spanish) Republicans did in 1938. I’d have no issue blowing up their trains, but as you said, even el Caudillo was a functioning adult.

      • Robert F says

        Now leading Republicans are defending his use of tear gas to clear that area for a photo op. If he starts having the military indiscriminately shoot into crowds of protestors, they’ll support that too, and his Christian supporters will exclaim, “AMEN!”.

      • Robert F says

        Apparently not only tear gas but rubber bullets were used to disperse the crowd for Trump’s photo op.

        “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

      • Robert F says

        Several clergy were tear gassed with the peaceful protestors. They were handing out water and snacks and trying to be a calming presence among the crowd. But the Disruptor in Chief wanted to take a photo, so with a few minutes warning, the tear gas and rubber bullets were deployed. Shame on our police and national guard troops that participated in this crime.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says

        What will it take for white, conservative evangelicals to disavow Trump? He is getting damn close to shooting someone in Times Square, in broad daylight.

        “White, conservative evangelicals” passed that point four years ago and haven’t slowed down since.

      • Rick Ro. says

        About the only thing some of my white Evangelical friends can use as a rallying point for Trump right now is, “If you’re a Christian, you MUST vote Trump because he’s against abortion!” I mean, that’s like the ONLY thing he has going for him in terms of “Christian character,” is that he’s against the murder of unborn babies. Everything else just washes out because of that, I guess.

        • Once they’re born (especially if they are illegal immigrants or “rioters”) all bets are off.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          I’m Not Surprised.
          Abortion has been such a hot-button rage issue that it’s been a Litmus Test of Salvation since the Reagan Years. I remember the Pro-Life Movement back then was headed in that direction (not the most important issue but The ONLY Issue) and we’ve had 30+ years of Entropy since for it to lock in and fester.

    • Christiane says

      I hope the grounds of St. John’s Church are restored to holy use once more after the ‘photo-shot’ fiasco

      what a shame this historic Church was used in such a way

      • So the media and you are upset with the President of the USA making a symbolic visit to the church called the Church of the Presidents but you are not too upset with the looters, rioters and lawbreakers that set the church o fire and defaced it. What a shame that the nation is now lawless with the approval of our city leaders.

        • He didn’t “visit” it. He just stood outside it and waved a Bible around, after peaceful protestors were driven off with tear gas and rubber bullets. Oh, and he didn’t even give any notification that he was coming.

          And also, I will refer you back to my long reply to Seneca above, where the protesters actually say why they are protesting. Yes, deplore the violence and the destruction, but would it kill you to have *some* understanding of what is driving all this?

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            Why “have some understanding” when You Are Always RIGHT?

          • Eeyore , are the protestors quoted the ones who have shot, killed, run over and beat up police officers?
            Are these the protestors that have looted NYC and other major cities to the point of destroying the neighborhoods that people depend on. Were these the protestors that block fire trucks, emergency response, and set fire and vandalized churches. Perhaps these were the protestors that set fire to a police station and then stole and trashed their city. I will say that the regular commenters here are somewhat restrained in their comments as I sense even the most progressive of you are appalled and realize the absolute lawless behavior is putting our society at risk. If I want explanations for the actions of the looters I will watch Fox, CNN , MSNBC who start very report with an alibi for the “protestors”. NYC will not recover, tourism will die, all who can will move, it will be a third world country. I guess a skateboard is a new symbol of protestors. This is white guilt on steroids that shows the failure of white and black leadership of major cities who have enriched themselves off the people they were elected to serve. The black leadership of major cities has taken care of themselves and neglected the people who trusted them. Again the winners are the gun stores, the people sitting on the fence about their political leanings who now have a clear choice. NYC is a mess with a Mayor who is absolutely not upholding his oath.

            • Robert F says

              The president of the US had peaceful demonstrators tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets so he could have his photo taken in front of a church for campaign purposes. If that doesn’t disturb you, you have a problem. It’s evil. Evil.

            • Dan, because a few protesters have acted violently, does that mean all protestors are tainted and can/should be dispersed violently? The ones in Lafayette Park were certainly not violent.

        • Clay Crouch says

          Give it a rest Dan. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • Well that is your opinion and you can respond to any fact or opinion I offer. Just because you do not agree with me do not make such a groundless , childish statement. I am just in a minority here as I try to spread the truth to the echo chamber .

            • Clay Crouch says

              Dan, it’s called St. John’s Episcopal Church. And Dan, it actually doesn’t belong to President Trump or any other president. But that didn’t deter him from using tear gas and flash bangs to clear peaceful protesters and clergy from in front of the church so he could stand there holding a Bible. Dan, did you read the Bishop of Washington’s statement condemning the president’s actions? And Dan, none of us are condoning those who are looting and damaging property. Dan, those of us in the echo chamber can condemn such actions, cheer on peaceful protesters, and condemn the actions of President Trump, all at the same time. You should try it.

              So you see, Dan, you really didn’t know what you were talking about.

              • https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/wash/dc28.htm

                Clay Crouch, I used the historic nickname of the church as it does convey that perhaps the reason the President of the USA visited the church it is that connected to the history of our nation. Of course Trump is using an opportunity to convey a political point, who is going to control access to public property, the rioters or the elected government of the USA. Thanks for informing me that the church does not belong to President Trump, did Macy’s in NYC belong to the looters? The looters and lawbreakers are using the protesters for their own goa; If the protesters were sincere they would not allow themselves to be used. Enough is enough. Again, the issue will be decided in Nov. So you see Clay Crouch, you don’t care what I am talking about as you have already decided on the issue and just catching the echo pleasant to your ears from the choir you are preaching to.

              • Robert F says

                Give it up, Clay. As far as dan and many Christian supporters of Trump are concerned, he could order the military to indiscriminately shoot into crowds of protestors, peaceful or not, and they would be okay with it. This is where we are.

            • anonymous says

              some truth you’re spreading here

              PRAVDA ?

      • Robert F says

        St. John’s needs to be exorcised.

  12. David Cornwell says

    The events of the last few weeks are a strong reminder to me of the events of 1968. I was still a young man living in Lexington, Kentucky. I had been a member of the Lexington Police Department for several years. I was mostly assigned to the Patrol Division, but part of the time served as a desk officer for the desk sergeant’s reports window and on the police switchboard.

    Even in 1968, Lexington was head and shoulders above most departments when it came to training. It operated its own training academy staffed by officers of high morality, ethics, and standards. One thing they made clear to us is that we were NOT the military

    Lexington had its share of racial problems that ran deep. So when riots were hitting other cities, we prepared. A special cadre of officers was selected and trained. I eventually flunked out of this training because they said I “marched like a Nazi!” — not a compliment. But I still had the training and the riot gear which I stored in my locker — I mean I could do everything except march correctly! Actually I didn’t want to be in that unit anyway.

    During the national turmoil, rumors would fly around Lexington — “the mall was on fire” and blacks were marching toward downtown — none of it true. However, we did work 12-hour shifts with two or three officers to a car for safety.

    1968 had been a horrible year. The Viet Nam War was dividing the country. Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy were both assassinated. The President announced he would not seek another term. And George Wallace was running for President in a third-party bid.

    Wallace came to Lexington and gave a speech at the University of Kentucky. I was in a contingent of police called out to help with security. My job was to help codon off a sidewalk where he would go to his car — after the speech, I think. He loved cops. He stopped in front of me, shook my hand, and said “when I’m elected I’ll turn the country over to you guys.” Remind you of anyone? His speeches were inflammatory, racist, and full of hate.

    In spite of all this Lexington remained relatively peaceful. I still follow news from Lexington and its police department — which is now one of the best trained urban departments in the country (my opinion). Lexington has had some huge demonstrations in the last few days. But the police have acted with remarkable restraint and only one person has been arrested at this point. In my opinion, this goes to training. And showing respect and consideration to those who are protesting. Compare this to Louisville. It also shows the importance of hiring highly educated police, offering good benefits and decent pay.

    Police can either inflame a situation and make it worse — or work for conditions of safe protest, helping to calm inflamed passion.

    • “Police can either inflame a situation and make it worse — or work for conditions of safe protest, helping to calm inflamed passion.”

      The white supremacists know this, which is why they have worked for decades to undermine and infiltrate police departments.

      https://www.justsecurity.org/70507/white-supremacist-infiltration-of-us-police-forces-fact-checking-national-security-advisor-obrien/

    • Robert F says

      I think the situation with police departments varies vastly from place to place. There are places where the leaders have really undertaken an attempt to make and keep police accountable; and then there are other places like the precinct where George Floyd was killed that are known for having a tradition of police brutality and protecting abusive cops.

      • senecagriggss says

        They do have a black police chief however.

        • David Cornwell says

          The color of the chief’s skin isn’t as important as what he can accomplish; his skill set. Police officers are like a tribal family and most of their social life takes place within this family. They are very protective of each other. And sometimes the police union adds an additional layer of protection. So a chief must be able to work reform in the culture of that individual department. It isn’t easy and will meet with fierce resistance from certain quarters. The chief must be able to find allies within the department and to work toward a new and different kind of ethos. Some have given up in despair. Sometimes starting from the bottom up is necessary. Install new leaders in the academy. Change the hiring process. Discourage military thinking. Improve the educational standards of new hires by requiring some college. Reward those who continue with their education and provide financial assistance and a pay premium for degrees.

          The chief should also take a hand in approving field training officers. Because once in the field everything learned in the academy can be undone by a training officer following the old culture.

          • senecagriggs says

            I think you nailed it David. Policemen are the alpha tribe

            • Robert F says

              Is that what you got out of David’s comment? Wow.

            • David Cornwell says

              Of necessity, I’ve been speaking in some generalities. Some cities, Lexington included, are encouraging police to be involved in civic affairs. To get them to know their neighborhoods both residentially and their patrol area. And in doing so to involve themselves in neighborhoods, schools, and churches. If a cop has speaking ability, so much the better. When this happens they can start leaving the bunker mentality and see themselves and other citizens of all stripes as a community of common interests and purpose. They aren’t social workers, but they can become a community resource and connection for all kinds of issues. Women cops are a force for the better. Policing has been portrayed as a macho profession and women help to modify this.

        • Robert F says

          What does the race of the police chief have to do with police brutality in his department against black civilians? To make it easy, I’ll answer for you: Nothing.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          They do have a black police chief however.

          Is his name “Token”?

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says

      And George Wallace was running for President in a third-party bid.

      Wallace came to Lexington and gave a speech at the University of Kentucky.

      George C Wallace, who in 1968 was elected president of the Confederate States of America?
      (Look at the 1968 Electoral College Map — clean sweep across the entire Former CSA.)

      • Not quite – Tennessee, Virginia, the Carolinas and Florida went with Nixon, and Texas went for Humphrey (hard to believe nowadays, right?). But still, he did win the Deep South…

        • 1972 Democrat Primary G. Wallace won 382 electoral votes, came in third even after being shot in Md. Last states he won was Michigan and Maryland. Robert Bryd won 2 states in 1960 running as a third party. Shows how demographics have changed. Wallace went on to winning Gov. of Alabama twice, which is strange as he black vote in Al. is so strong. Go figure.

          • Robert F says

            Ever hear of voter suppression.

            • Robert F. Sure I have heard of voter suppression , I watch CNN. Also real Governor of Georgia Stacy Abrams has brought it up several times.

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says

            I understand Wallace & his wife switched off alternate terms n the Governor’s Mansion to get around Alabama’s term limits for Governors. Like Putin and that bud of his in Russia some 40 years later.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says

          Have you counted only the 1968 Electoral votes for the Former Confederate States?
          I still think it would be a Wallace Win.

          (Though Wallace was said to have melllowed out a bit after he got shot in ’72.)

    • David Cornwell says

      Here is a link to a short recruitment video that gives a taste of what Lexington is attempting to do:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw8nIoSnNE8&feature=emb_rel_end

  13. senecagriggs says

    Thunderclap Newman; “Something in the Air.” [ cause the revolution’s here]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTZoJ01FpD8

  14. Dana Ames says

    Father Stephen has repeatedly written that as a nation we need to publicly acknowledge and turn from sins against black Africans in enslaving them and Native Americans in decimating them. The problem is that we have no mechanism, because of how our nation and our churches are composed and organized, to do that.

    Not all Christians believe we need to do that, and Christians are so divided among themselves that we couldn’t agree on the prayers and ceremonies (there’s that bad word, ritual) to demonstrate our repentance. “Who, me? I’ve never owned slaves. I’ve never looked down on or mistreated anyone because of their ethnicity.” Well, we all share in what it means to be human, the best and the worst of it. It’s all there in Dostoyevski:

    “There is only one way to salvation (definition: ultimate healing and union with God), and that is to make yourself responsible for all men’s sins. As soon as you make yourself responsible in all sincerity for everything and for everyone, you will see at once that this is really so, and that you are in fact to blame for everyone and for all things.” … every one of us is undoubtedly responsible for all men and everything on earth… each one personally for all mankind and every individual man. This knowledge is the crown of life for the monk and every man… Only through that knowledge, our heart grows soft with infinite, universal, inexhaustible love… (Elder Zossima, Brothers Karamazov)

    “…we are all responsible for all. For all the babes, for there are big children as well as little children. All are babes.” (Dmitry, BK)

    “In sinning, each man sins against all, and each man is at least partly guilty for another’s sin. There is no isolated sin.” (Demons)

    That is humility, even the weakness of the Cross, which is our only strength. We will not be able to truly “get along” unless we go there, each one personally, without demanding that anyone else go there, and confess.

    “What to do?” she exclaimed, suddenly jumping up from her place, and her eyes, still full of tears, suddenly flashed. “Stand up!” (She seized him by the shoulder; he rose, looking at her almost in amazement.) “Go now, this minute, stand in the crossroads, bow down, and first kiss the earth you’ve defiled, then bow to the whole world, on all four sides, and say aloud to everyone: ‘I have killed!’ Then God will send you life again. Will you go? Will you?” (Sonya, Crime and Punishment)

    Dana

    • Robert F says

      An official state church with lots of public rituals of repentance would not help us resolve this problem.

  15. anonymous says

    she has a right to bring it up

    “Kemp’s win comes under a swirl of scrutiny. He faced relentless criticism over his decision to wait until after the election to resign as secretary of state — a role that includes oversight of the state’s elections — and was hobbled by several lawsuits claiming his policies amounted to voter suppression.”

  16. Best you remain anonymous

    • anonymous says

      says who?

    • Robert F says

      You are anonymous too, since the name “dan” might just as well be “anonymous” with regard to establishing identity. In fact, many of us are anonymous here.

  17. Dan, because a few protesters have acted violently, does that mean all protestors are tainted and can/should be dispersed violently? The ones in Lafayette Park were certainly not violent.

  18. And one more thing, Dan. Stop watching conservative media, and start reading the Gospels. Your ideas about what people should and should not do are being informed by hatemongers, and not Christ.

    I say this with utter conviction. Repent.